bluetooth
Active member
Good luck with driving test. Cars are far easier than boats. No F7 gail waves or current for starters.
Independence | Upadates & Cruising
- Thread starter londonrascal
- Start date
Good luck with driving test. Cars are far easier than boats. No F7 gail waves or current for starters.
Piers
Well-known member
Was this Apparent or True wind?
So 76 degrees of roll from side to side. Interesting to say the least.
henryf
Well-known member
keeping an eye on the bilge pump LED indicators as to how often they were running and for how long also became 'a thing' - every so often when a pump would not go off inspection would need to be made by lifting up the hatches get down and inspect was it a flooding incident or a float switch once again stuck in the up position. During one of these inspections Charlie 'took off' from the cabin sole and hit his head on the secured steps above him which normally you'd never be able to achieve because there is a large clearance between the two, but in those sort of seas it was not an easy task to stay down or in one place.
Bloody hell. Having been out at sea in far more benign conditions and monitored a head injury incident which sadly turned out to be fatal on the radio this had shivers running down my spine.
From memory Charlie was one of your responsible adults, so lose him and the workload on your remaining responsible adult goes into overdrive as he tries to save the life of his mate whilst also ensuring the boat doesn't sink and no one else gets injured or dies.
Just co-ordinating the rescue of an injured crew member is beyond the limits of most in calm seas.
I hope you realise how lucky you were.
Henry
Bloody hell. Having been out at sea in far more benign conditions and monitored a head injury incident which sadly turned out to be fatal on the radio this had shivers running down my spine.
From memory Charlie was one of your responsible adults, so lose him and the workload on your remaining responsible adult goes into overdrive as he tries to save the life of his mate whilst also ensuring the boat doesn't sink and no one else gets injured or dies.
Just co-ordinating the rescue of an injured crew member is beyond the limits of most in calm seas.
I hope you realise how lucky you were.
Henry
markc
Well-known member
Sadly I doubt it - this was the point I made some time back - they all got through it but just something going wrong would have put all of them in real danger and those that came to rescue them. Once things start to escalate, it can go horribly wrong very quickly. All needless risk IMHO
MrB
Well-known member
If Ricardo reads this pm me.
londonrascal
New member
So back from the boat this weekend - popped on over here to see what the latest was. Can I just agree then? Ok we pushed things far and hard, we had some issues and failures, we were lucky and now the charts have had their use and taken off the boat and the last of the salt has been washed from the nooks and crannies I think it is time to put that topic to bed because it is not likely any time soon the boat will be going to sea but should I wish to, perhaps I will take a more 'eyes wide open' approach to matters.
Back to the present I have two fuel leaks going on - one solved and stopped, the other far less continues. The first is where the vent hose from the centre tank heads up to the hull vent. This vent hose will be full of fuel because the centre tank is lower than the two wing tanks. Both wing tanks when full exert quite a pressure on the centre tank through the balance pipe that connects the centre tank to them. It might just be coincidence but where the split in the vent hose was, is right behind where the new ducting for the warm air heater runs. It also has some zip ties that hold it to other hoses and they appear to be cut suggesting the possibility that it was moved, nudged, whatever during the installation of the ducting.
I have now isolated the centre tank so no more fuel may run into it, and have diverted the fuel manifold to only take fuel from it - then I have run the boats 240v over the weekend from the generator and run up the engines too in order to burn as much fuel as I can - thus the level in the centre tank has dropped and it is has used up the fuel contained in the vent hose. All was looking good. I then used a a very good investment that I made when still in Plymouth - an oil spill containment kit.b This was used to soak up the remaining fuel in the bilge area thankful it was not pumped overboard by the bilge pump - I now find out why, it is not working as it is should - new float switch, pump and non-return valve is needed. The pump did not like running dry for several days which is what is had been doing when I arrived at the boat on Saturday. The bagged absorbent material was then taken away by my ever suffering stepdad to be properly disposed of stinking out the car boot in the process.
So with one problem sorted, another solution found, you can imagine my upset to find yet more fuel coming from somewhere else! Hunting about for the source I find it is coming from the fuel take off pipe that has been put into the top of the centre tank to feed the new heater. I duly took photos and sent an explantation email to Esper who installed it on Sunday evening. First this this morning I get a call accepting responsibility for the fuel take off pipe leak and saying I should get a third party to repair this and bill them, as for the vent hose - they accept it may be their fault but, it also may not be, so I need to to arrange for someone to come and inspect the same and report back to Esper with their findings - if they feel it is a result of their installation Esper will either repair the issue themselves or I will get such work done and they will pick up the cost. Can't say fairer than that.
I found that the RIB tie down straps were not the only things to break, it also include he actual metal hooks - some are seriously bent others snapped clean in half (these are the hooks the straps come with and are 4mm steel) Fitted some new lighting to light the area around the boat at night with PIR sensors making it easier to find your way along the pontoon in the unlit Marina area at night, along with some CCTV cameras and that was all I really have had time for as been in the engine room cleaning up most the weekend. My Boat Safety Scheme inspection did not happen because the chap has hurt his back so called at just gone 7:00am to explain, I have re-scheduled for next weekend.
I also have to get new batteries - I was going to go Lithium, but now the boat is in Norfolk it is on shore power, it is too large to really head off and moor anywhere too remote for an extended period and even if I did I have the means to generate 240v using the generator so am just going to get some AGM cells and keep things basic. two 200Ah domestic batteries, one 200Ah engine ranking battery (to serve for both engines as per current set up) and a 100Ah cranking battery for generator. Also will remove the Mastervolt 80 Series charger and put in place probably a Victron combined Charger Inverter and that will be that ticked off the list.
Back to the present I have two fuel leaks going on - one solved and stopped, the other far less continues. The first is where the vent hose from the centre tank heads up to the hull vent. This vent hose will be full of fuel because the centre tank is lower than the two wing tanks. Both wing tanks when full exert quite a pressure on the centre tank through the balance pipe that connects the centre tank to them. It might just be coincidence but where the split in the vent hose was, is right behind where the new ducting for the warm air heater runs. It also has some zip ties that hold it to other hoses and they appear to be cut suggesting the possibility that it was moved, nudged, whatever during the installation of the ducting.
I have now isolated the centre tank so no more fuel may run into it, and have diverted the fuel manifold to only take fuel from it - then I have run the boats 240v over the weekend from the generator and run up the engines too in order to burn as much fuel as I can - thus the level in the centre tank has dropped and it is has used up the fuel contained in the vent hose. All was looking good. I then used a a very good investment that I made when still in Plymouth - an oil spill containment kit.b This was used to soak up the remaining fuel in the bilge area thankful it was not pumped overboard by the bilge pump - I now find out why, it is not working as it is should - new float switch, pump and non-return valve is needed. The pump did not like running dry for several days which is what is had been doing when I arrived at the boat on Saturday. The bagged absorbent material was then taken away by my ever suffering stepdad to be properly disposed of stinking out the car boot in the process.
So with one problem sorted, another solution found, you can imagine my upset to find yet more fuel coming from somewhere else! Hunting about for the source I find it is coming from the fuel take off pipe that has been put into the top of the centre tank to feed the new heater. I duly took photos and sent an explantation email to Esper who installed it on Sunday evening. First this this morning I get a call accepting responsibility for the fuel take off pipe leak and saying I should get a third party to repair this and bill them, as for the vent hose - they accept it may be their fault but, it also may not be, so I need to to arrange for someone to come and inspect the same and report back to Esper with their findings - if they feel it is a result of their installation Esper will either repair the issue themselves or I will get such work done and they will pick up the cost. Can't say fairer than that.
I found that the RIB tie down straps were not the only things to break, it also include he actual metal hooks - some are seriously bent others snapped clean in half (these are the hooks the straps come with and are 4mm steel) Fitted some new lighting to light the area around the boat at night with PIR sensors making it easier to find your way along the pontoon in the unlit Marina area at night, along with some CCTV cameras and that was all I really have had time for as been in the engine room cleaning up most the weekend. My Boat Safety Scheme inspection did not happen because the chap has hurt his back so called at just gone 7:00am to explain, I have re-scheduled for next weekend.
I also have to get new batteries - I was going to go Lithium, but now the boat is in Norfolk it is on shore power, it is too large to really head off and moor anywhere too remote for an extended period and even if I did I have the means to generate 240v using the generator so am just going to get some AGM cells and keep things basic. two 200Ah domestic batteries, one 200Ah engine ranking battery (to serve for both engines as per current set up) and a 100Ah cranking battery for generator. Also will remove the Mastervolt 80 Series charger and put in place probably a Victron combined Charger Inverter and that will be that ticked off the list.
jrudge
Well-known member
Lithium batteries will cost a fortune and also require a new compatible charger so I doubt it would be cost effective.
londonrascal
New member
Lithium do indeed cost a great deal, but they are so much better overall.
You can use almsot all of their capacity, they weight less so you can have more physical cells without adding additional weight to your boat, they last many many more cycles than any comparable technology and they don't mind being discharged to almost empty and will re-charge far faster too as they will accept a very high current being fed back into them.
With a charge controller (which you must have either built into the cells or as a separate unit) many are 'plug and play' and will work with existing charger and alternator set ups. The big question is what would I do with all that stored energy? Ideal if you are going to be away from a shore power source for extended periods or even if you just have an Inverter and want to run power hungry equipment like electric hobs and ovens or your air condition overnight without running a generator. Lithium don't mind high current loads - where as lead acid just are not built to keep up supplying massive amperage loads all at once - sure they are fine over a long period with a modest current draw but hit a lead acid battery bank with a few hundred amps all at once and they won't like it one bit.
So alas they have had to be removed from the shopping list because they just would not get much use since almost all the time I am going to be either plugged into shore power, even if you hope from Marina to Marina you've almost always got a power hook up - sometimes complimentary too as was the case in Brighton, so did some laundry and used the dryer onboard and put a load through the dishwasher while there.
You can use almsot all of their capacity, they weight less so you can have more physical cells without adding additional weight to your boat, they last many many more cycles than any comparable technology and they don't mind being discharged to almost empty and will re-charge far faster too as they will accept a very high current being fed back into them.
With a charge controller (which you must have either built into the cells or as a separate unit) many are 'plug and play' and will work with existing charger and alternator set ups. The big question is what would I do with all that stored energy? Ideal if you are going to be away from a shore power source for extended periods or even if you just have an Inverter and want to run power hungry equipment like electric hobs and ovens or your air condition overnight without running a generator. Lithium don't mind high current loads - where as lead acid just are not built to keep up supplying massive amperage loads all at once - sure they are fine over a long period with a modest current draw but hit a lead acid battery bank with a few hundred amps all at once and they won't like it one bit.
So alas they have had to be removed from the shopping list because they just would not get much use since almost all the time I am going to be either plugged into shore power, even if you hope from Marina to Marina you've almost always got a power hook up - sometimes complimentary too as was the case in Brighton, so did some laundry and used the dryer onboard and put a load through the dishwasher while there.
MrB
Well-known member
You are trying to teach your Grandmother to suck eggs on here talking about batteries. Also, your boat may as well have no batteries as it's never going to move until you sell it as it's to impractical for the Broads.
BroadAmbition
New member
your boat may as well have no batteries as it's never going to move until you sell it as it's to impractical for the Broads.
You say the nicest things about a fellow member MrB.
So Indy is never going to move eh? You know this of course!
Also you seem to be an expert on what boats are not practical for the Broads too
Notwithstanding Indy has the majority of the Yare / Waveney plus two exits out to the North Sea.
Still, I defer to your superior knowledge
Griff
MrB
Well-known member
Ok let's set the timer for when it moves again huh Griff
I don't need to be an expert to know that boats draft is too much for the Broads to be usable, you know this too.
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MapisM
Well-known member
Sorry to hear of the additional damages, but all considered they are surprisingly minor/limited. All's well that ends well, I reckon!
Back to present days as you suggest, intriguing pic, this one:
View attachment 69266
I suppose that "SOFT S..." is for soft steel ('innit?), but what's the "...CKNESS:" before that?
Thickness springs to mind, but it would be weird to qualify thickness as soft...
Besides, I'd be curious to hear at which sort of PSI the tank were pressure tested, if the number is readable (it isn't in the pic).
Oh, and fwiw I fully agree with jrudge on lithium batteries.
Back to present days as you suggest, intriguing pic, this one:
View attachment 69266
I suppose that "SOFT S..." is for soft steel ('innit?), but what's the "...CKNESS:" before that?
Thickness springs to mind, but it would be weird to qualify thickness as soft...
Besides, I'd be curious to hear at which sort of PSI the tank were pressure tested, if the number is readable (it isn't in the pic).
Oh, and fwiw I fully agree with jrudge on lithium batteries.
benjenbav
Well-known member
Sorry to hear of the additional damages, but all considered they are surprisingly minor/limited. All's well that ends well, I reckon!
Back to present days as you suggest, intriguing pic, this one:
View attachment 69266
I suppose that "SOFT S..." is for soft steel ('innit?), but what's the "...CKNESS:" before that?
Thickness springs to mind, but it would be weird to qualify thickness as soft...
Besides, I'd be curious to hear at which sort of PSI the tank were pressure tested, if the number is readable (it isn't in the pic).
Oh, and fwiw I fully agree with jrudge on lithium batteries.
Possibly reads:
'[10]mm thickness: soft steel'
or similar?
Greg2
Well-known member
Not really, plenty of depth in the Yare and Waveney - New Cut and parts of Oulton Broad may need a bit of tide underneath the boat but entirely doable. As I said previously, cruising the southern rivers is doable with the only real restrictions being the St Olaves bridge on the Waveney (a problem for many that simply requires a detour via the New Cut) and the bridge at Beccles, but there are 24hr moorings next to it so the town can still be a destination with a lovely trip up to Geldeston Lock in the tender.
Lots of large seagoing boats in Brundall
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Portofino
Well-known member
Seems a bit odd picking apart the OP,s current berth and useage
He,s just had it there what ? —- only 2-3 weeks —- give him a chance this coming season to find out .
To add balance there’s lots of so called “seagoing “ boats that never move and lots of lake like boats in sea ports that do ( albeit rarther precariously) .
Allways makes me chuckle at those little Riva runabouts ,that made Carlo or more like the celebs did - make the marque famous —- to see folks persist running them in the sea in the SoF .Scary in an unexpected afternoon chop .
If you want to a target to ridicule , direct your punches @ those .
Drystacked put in for 3 weeks , awfully wet and soaked ride , all that 23 coats of varnish torn to shreads with the salt and Med sun .
It’s a boat , ( Robins ,Trader ) a very fine boat and interesting to listen about .
He can do neither right nor wrong ,talk about glass 1/2 empty guys .
Anyways hope the iatrogenic fuel leaks get fixed soon .
He,s just had it there what ? —- only 2-3 weeks —- give him a chance this coming season to find out .
To add balance there’s lots of so called “seagoing “ boats that never move and lots of lake like boats in sea ports that do ( albeit rarther precariously) .
Allways makes me chuckle at those little Riva runabouts ,that made Carlo or more like the celebs did - make the marque famous —- to see folks persist running them in the sea in the SoF .Scary in an unexpected afternoon chop .
If you want to a target to ridicule , direct your punches @ those .
Drystacked put in for 3 weeks , awfully wet and soaked ride , all that 23 coats of varnish torn to shreads with the salt and Med sun .
It’s a boat , ( Robins ,Trader ) a very fine boat and interesting to listen about .
He can do neither right nor wrong ,talk about glass 1/2 empty guys .
Anyways hope the iatrogenic fuel leaks get fixed soon .
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londonrascal
New member
You are trying to teach your Grandmother to suck eggs on here talking about batteries. Also, your boat may as well have no batteries as it's never going to move until you sell it as it's to impractical for the Broads.
I am not trying to teach anyone anything – simply, I gave a roundabout assessment that Lithium battery technology is better that Lead Acid technology (if you want to have something that can be discharged very rapidly to say 10% of capacity) and the cells not be effected by such. It is not for everyone, usually because of the initial cost not to mention the fact you can take the manufactures claims of discharge and recharge cycles with a pinch of salt – they will be less and the cold will affect them more too. In fact as it turns out they are not going to be required after all for myself – that is not to say that I won’t be getting some for other projects.
You also said that my boat may as well have no batteries as it is never going to move until I sell it as it is to impractical for the Broads. To that I did wonder what your point was? You see if it was the case I had intended to cruise the rivers with Independence and now I have her on the Broads I discover I am not able to, then you may have had a point.
However, the fact it has got from Great Yarmouth up the Yare and into the moorings without issue and such happened before high water shows it can cruise around the rivers if that was what I wished to do. But that was not what I bought the boat to do, I bought the boat as an opportunity (should I take the fancy with others) to use her and travel further afield even if that was only a couple of hours cruise along the coast.
I choose to have her moved the Broads as it will be closer to home for me (when I move to Norfolk) so it all makes practical sense when one looks at it in the larger scheme of things. For the times I want to cruise the Broads (especially the northern rivers) I simply go to Stalham and use Broad Ambition. So as situations go I think I am pretty covered and happy where I stand.
I am not trying to teach anyone anything – simply, I gave a roundabout assessment that Lithium battery technology is better that Lead Acid technology (if you want to have something that can be discharged very rapidly to say 10% of capacity) and the cells not be effected by such. It is not for everyone, usually because of the initial cost not to mention the fact you can take the manufactures claims of discharge and recharge cycles with a pinch of salt – they will be less and the cold will affect them more too. In fact as it turns out they are not going to be required after all for myself – that is not to say that I won’t be getting some for other projects.
You also said that my boat may as well have no batteries as it is never going to move until I sell it as it is to impractical for the Broads. To that I did wonder what your point was? You see if it was the case I had intended to cruise the rivers with Independence and now I have her on the Broads I discover I am not able to, then you may have had a point.
However, the fact it has got from Great Yarmouth up the Yare and into the moorings without issue and such happened before high water shows it can cruise around the rivers if that was what I wished to do. But that was not what I bought the boat to do, I bought the boat as an opportunity (should I take the fancy with others) to use her and travel further afield even if that was only a couple of hours cruise along the coast.
I choose to have her moved the Broads as it will be closer to home for me (when I move to Norfolk) so it all makes practical sense when one looks at it in the larger scheme of things. For the times I want to cruise the Broads (especially the northern rivers) I simply go to Stalham and use Broad Ambition. So as situations go I think I am pretty covered and happy where I stand.
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londonrascal
New member
It has taken a while, but the second part of the passage (Weymouth to Brighton) is ready to watch:
Portofino
Well-known member
I enjoyed watching that .
Tnx for posting ,
Tnx for posting ,
n.herring
Active member
Very good and enjoyable video.
ashtead
Well-known member
I see this is a serious film so might see if I can play through the TV to do justice to the filming one evening soon so many thanks for sharing your trip with those of us who are not so adventurous. I will never view a Trader in same light again I'm sure.
