IN in EU or OUT from EU

[CaptainCava]

A great speech by John Redwood.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...ood-voters-to-banish-puppet-parliament-Brexit

Great speech.......shame there were only about 20 people in the house to listen to it.

 

[Sandmartin]

Yes I have read all the arguments and discussions and I agree that leaving the EU will be turmoil and the out negotiations will be messed up by our idiot polititions. But that is the point, I belive in democracy. I would sooner we struggle under our own elected politions (who we can vote out) than thrive under the EU's unelected faceless autocat elite; or worse still let Germany finaly, in their 3rd attempt, rule Europe.

 

[Babylon]

Wasn't there a chap in the 1930's who had a lot of popular appeal?

 

[chanelyacht]

Wasn't there a chap in the 1930's who had a lot of popular appeal?

I recall he was quite keen on a unified Europe with Germany at the helm, as well.

 

[Yeasty]

Yes I have read all the arguments and discussions and I agree that leaving the EU will be turmoil and the out negotiations will be messed up by our idiot polititions. But that is the point, I belive in democracy. I would sooner we struggle under our own elected politions (who we can vote out) than thrive under the EU's unelected faceless autocat elite; or worse still let Germany finaly, in their 3rd attempt, rule Europe.

I've just tried to find out who my MEP is. Even Google turned up blank

 

[CaptainCava]

I've just tried to find out who my MEP is. Even Google turned up blank

It really doesn't matter who he/she is. The only thing that you can be sure of is that he/she will be claiming a lot of 'expenses'.

 

[CaptainCava]

It really doesn't matter who he/she is. The only thing that you can be sure of is that he/she will be claiming a lot of 'expenses'.

.....and having Foxtrot Alpha influence or benefit to us.

 

[CaptainCava]

After all the 'shall we/shan't we' that's been going on, if we vote to stay in, can anyone seriously think our so called influence won't be totally neutralised.

 

[fergie_mac66]

The young people debate this is my comment.

Young people, HAVE SOME AMBITION. you can create your own rights.
You are going to be the councillors, the politicians, the civil servants of the future. You will then have the control,the choice where the money Is spent on NHS, housing,education, culture, environment, research, security, military for your children our grandchildren. Errrrrrrr will you?
If we remain it is quite obvious you will have seen, if you have been aware, of the media reports, the EU reports, uk government reports TV news etc over the past few years. That the power to make the decisions has been moved, is being moved inexorably away from the UK to the unelected, unaccountable, unsackable and mostly,( less than 7%and decreasing), not uk citizens with no interest in UK priorities.
How many of you will get chance to make any decisions about your homeland and your own futures. I would submit to you that microscopically few of you will be able to get the chance to change your future homeland by your decisions if we remain, you will have no influence.

 

[fergie_mac66]

I've just tried to find out who my MEP is. Even Google turned up blank

Mep s have no power.If you voted it won't have been by his her name it is I think by party then Mep's are picked by the party



Interesting link about Mep about EU power No doubt it will be in other papers

http://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...ee-blasts-Europhile-Ministers-Brussels-Brexit

 

[mihtjel]

A lot of the arguments made for Brexit, about faceless bureaucrats and getting to vote directly for the people in charge, seem to be very convincing arguments for a new referendum on the independence of Scotland; as well as Wales, Cornwall, and whatever other parts of the country feel underrepresented. Surely those have exactly the same arguments with regard to Westminster.

 

[ianj99]

Sterling is strong - 1.3 euros to the £, $1.45 to the £ quite the opposite of what many claimed, although this can change.
Devaluation is good for exports anyway so not the disaster scenario the 'inners' would have us believe.

EU immigration up again - 184k last year and 3 times what the Tories promised. So no wonder there is a housing shortage, and the pressure on NHS just keeps on growing......

How will voting to stay in help?

 

[Gordonmc]

Migration to the UK from EU countries up to 184 K in 2015.
Migration to the UK from non-EU countries up to 188 K.
The Brexit argument is that we have no control over EU migration to the UK.
But wait a moment, the UK does have control over non-EU migration.
What does that tell you?

 

[Daydream believer]

Sterling is strong - 1.3 euros to the £, $1.45 to the £ quite the opposite of what many claimed, although this can change.
Devaluation is good for exports anyway so not the disaster scenario the 'inners' would have us believe.

EU immigration up again - 184k last year and 3 times what the Tories promised. So no wonder there is a housing shortage, and the pressure on NHS just keeps on growing......

How will voting to stay in help?

I am sure I saw a labour MP twit on TV last night saying that there was plenty of room for immigration in the UK for the numbers we are seeing, anyone else see that or were they all half asleep whilst the referendum as discussed as i was

 

[ianj99]

Migration to the UK from EU countries up to 184 K in 2015.
Migration to the UK from non-EU countries up to 188 K.
The Brexit argument is that we have no control over EU migration to the UK.
But wait a moment, the UK does have control over non-EU migration.
What does that tell you?

The non eu immigrants were said to be mainly students on a short visa.

The point is that if we leave, we can have border controls and an immigration policy that applies equally to everyone.
E.g. you are welcome if:-
a) you have been offered and accepted a job
and b) you arrange your own accommodation - ie you do not qualify for social housing
and c) you cannot claim any benefits for 4years (if any family accompanies you, you must show that your earnings can support them as they too cannot claim benefits.)

 

[Bobc]

Migration to the UK from EU countries up to 184 K in 2015.
Migration to the UK from non-EU countries up to 188 K.
The Brexit argument is that we have no control over EU migration to the UK.
But wait a moment, the UK does have control over non-EU migration.
What does that tell you?

It tells you a couple of things:-

1./ It tells you that we need economic migrants to work in our schools, hospitals, railways, roads, etc.
2./ It tells you that a lot of students from outside the EU rate the UK education system, and are paying a lot to study here (which is helping to find our Universities)
3./ It is telling you that despite the points-based system and requirements for entry that the non-EU migrants have to comply with, there are enough wanting to come to the UK and contribute WITH the qualifications, skills, and financial backing that we require.

What we don't want, and what's causing all the problems, are the hordes of un-skilled people from Eastern Europe, most of whom arrive without a job, who in their attempt to survive here, are accepting work at ridiculously low wages (which even then are far higher than they will get at home), and are putting downward pressure on low-cost and un-skilled wages, which is stopping UK citizens from getting those jobs.

 

[ianj99]

It tells you a couple of things:-

What we don't want, and what's causing all the problems, are the hordes of un-skilled people from Eastern Europe, most of whom arrive without a job, who in their attempt to survive here, are accepting work at ridiculously low wages (which even then are far higher than they will get at home), and are putting downward pressure on low-cost and un-skilled wages, which is stopping UK citizens from getting those jobs.

The Living Wage is an even more powerful magnet for the hordes and by the time it reaches £10/hr in 2020, Turkey and a few other Eastern European countries will probably members, so whatever your views about EU immigration now, think ahead four years...
As it is Merkel has done a deal with Turkey for visa free travel so can we expect an influx soon? Probably.

 

[TiggerToo]

...Surely those have exactly the same arguments with regard to Westminster.

exactly so

 

[TiggerToo]

It tells you a couple of things:-

1./ It tells you that we need economic migrants to work in our schools, hospitals, railways, roads, etc.
2./ It tells you that a lot of students from outside the EU rate the UK education system, and are paying a lot to study here (which is helping to find our Universities)
3./ It is telling you that despite the points-based system and requirements for entry that the non-EU migrants have to comply with, there are enough wanting to come to the UK and contribute WITH the qualifications, skills, and financial backing that we require.

What we don't want, and what's causing all the problems, are the hordes of un-skilled people from Eastern Europe, most of whom arrive without a job, who in their attempt to survive here, are accepting work at ridiculously low wages (which even then are far higher than they will get at home), and are putting downward pressure on low-cost and un-skilled wages, which is stopping UK citizens from getting those jobs.

I agree with 1. 2. and 3. (I see all of those, and I work in 2. where that is surely the case).

I don't agree with "the hordes of un-skilled people from Eastern Europe". First of all, they are not "hordes". Secondly they come here to work. The down-pressure on wages come from a lot of UK businesses which are making buckets (and, hang on, all of us middle classes who benefit from cheap cleaners, school assistants, cheap food etc).

 

[Daydream believer]

(and, hang on, all of us middle classes who benefit from cheap cleaners, school assistants, cheap food etc).

As a retired person I do not see me benefiting from waiting 10 weeks to see a NHS consultant ( albeit a Greek--- with, I might add, apparently little concern for my health). Being unable to get an appointment in under 8 weeks for a scan & walking into a hospital & not hearing any English voices in the queues & throngs of people milling around.
& before anyone makes the point--- we may employ foreign people in the hospitals, by why do we employ them to treat foreigners.