capnsensible
Well-Known Member
You spotted the perspective there. Well done.
ICC By Assessment?
- Thread starter Laser310
- Start date
Never Grumble
Well-Known Member
I have an ICC for power driven vessels ... its all I am allowed with my RN Watchkeeping Cert and Yachtmaster (Power). I got it as being a member of the RYA it was free. What I really need is one for sailing and probably will have to do it just to be able to charter a yacht in the Med. I spoke to someone at a sailing school who implied the standard for the ICC was less than a day skip, its a bit galling to have to spend money and a day or two doing something of limited value, especially as we sail our own yacht regularly.
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
The instructor who assessed me reckoned that ICC and Day Skipper were pretty much equivalent, and that there was no point in Day Skipper if you'd got ICC; of course Day Skipper gives you ICC. Certainly the syllabus is very similar; I think that Day Skipper assumes you're starting from zero, but ICC assumes you're already at or close to the required standard. One is a course, the other is an examination.
Never Grumble
Well-Known Member
The problem for me is to go and do the ICC is a bit of a backwards step.
Skylark
Well-Known Member
The OP was asking for clarification regarding categories 4c and 4d, also for a recommendation for an assessment centre. Your post doesn’t seem to have addresses his questions ?Correct me if am wrong
An ICC is required to charter a yacht in some, many countries, in the Med.
I have raced for decades, participated in RORC Blue Water races, been skipper and owner (with my wife) of a yacht winning CHS annual championships 2 years in a row at a prestigous yacht club, Since 'retiring' from racing have owned a 38' cat for over 20 years, made a number of passages across Bass Strait to SW Tasmania and write occasionally about anchoring
But I need to pay to obtain an ICC.
Yet though I need to pay for said certificate - my fellow certificate owners do not need to know how to anchor - and an absence of knowledge of anchoring is a root cause of concern for many - check on anchoring threads on this forum, Cruisers Forum etc.
dgadee - I'm with you.
Jonathan
Does your now UK based surgeon friend remove chips from the shoulders of highly skilled and experienced but unqualified sailors? There seems to be quite a need ?
Neeves
Well-Known Member
I'm a Scot - I object to sending money unnecessarily and wasting time - its part of our genetics.
No? - need
The question of the OP was amply answered by those in the know.
I was just taking opportunity for a whinge (which the forum allows (without the need to start a new thread - nor restrict answers to the OP).. The number of chips is indicative of some negativity of the ICC, I am not alone. The reaction to the whinge was interesting - its always nice to hear the views of others.
But I do note you have offered the OP no answers either - you too seem to be.....wingeing.
. Pots and kettles come to mind....Jonathan
dgadee
Well-Known Member
Thank you for adding so much to the debate. Very welcome.
Skylark
Well-Known Member
On the contrary. I endeavoured to answer the OP question by making a positive and constructive suggestion, see post number 16.But I do note you have offered the OP no answers either - you too seem to be.....wingeing.
Jonathan
I gather that you are both happy to not have an ICC, which is absolutely fine. I just don’t get why you should become so hot under the collar about the subject, especially given that the post was generated by someone who clearly does want one. ?
dgadee
Well-Known Member
An ICC is a citizen's right to possess should he have knowledge and skill sufficient for the task. The RYA has a monopoly on provision for sailing ICC's in the UK. It offers a single path which some (including me) do not wish to undertake. It uses that monoploy to benefit itself and its franchise partners. There should be other options.
I've just repeated my earlier comments because I don't want my views to be misrepresented.
I've just repeated my earlier comments because I don't want my views to be misrepresented.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
But
(a) It is not a right, it is an opportunity - to get an ICC if you can demonstrate that you meet the competency requiremnts for this INTERNATIONAL qualification;
(b) There is no monopoly over the assessment for the certificate - a wide range of qualified examiners;
(c) There is not a monopoly in terms of UK issuers of ICC certificates, as others have pointed out on here.
(d) You have provided no evidence to support your inflammatory statements about the RYA‘s intentions or actions.
(e) If you think there should be other options take the initiative and set up these other options (positive actions by you would be more effective than repeated words of criticism about actions by others).
To many of us the ICC is easy enough to get IF we want it and have the skills. It ain’t broke so no need to fix something which is optional anyway.
As you state that don’t want to undertake an ICC assessment, and it is not compulsory so don’t need an ICC, this should not be a problem. All good.
PS. I have no connection with the RYA other than as an ordinary member, and holder of an ICC.
dgadee
Well-Known Member
It is a right.
It is broke.
I am currently on my way to Turkey. I may (or may not) require an ICC there. Should I want to go on internal waterways in Europe I would require this.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Well do your assessment and pay a few quid. In the costs of cruising the ICC is just a few beers.
dgadee
Well-Known Member
You pay and I'll do it.
Neeves
Well-Known Member
The charter fleets use it as an indication of competence - and rightly so. Its basically all they have.
If I recall threads on this forum, and others, there is a constant comment on the inability of people to anchor, whether its a Med moor or anchoring. I don't recall noticing other comments on people inability to know who has rights, the inability of people to recognise lights, or an inability to trim sails - the root cause of complaint is ... anchoring. Charter parties invariably anchor, again whether anchoring 'freely' or using a Med moor.
The gaining a of an ICC will suggest to the charter party, or the skipper of the group, that he or she knows all they need to know - leading to complacency, and results in focussed complain on this and other forum. People complain - novices anchor too close together, novices use in adequate scope, novices don't power set.
How much would it take to include anchoring in the syllabus?
They need anchoring skill every night on a charter
It is not part of the schedule of skills that are tested.
Beggars belief.
Charter boats are not going to sail at night - but lights are part of the schedule.....
It also beggars belief that people, apparently, don't care.
I'm not going to change the world - but if all of those who support the certificate spoke up about its omissions there might be a bit more support for the certificate. If those who benefit, its part of their income as an assessor, spoke up - instead of defending wholeheartedly the content of the, flawed, certificate it might have more value and support.
But don't argue with me, I don't matter at all - I'll just whinge a bit more - why not direct your time and energy toward having a better certificate with content that justifies the cost - or - if you want to argue with me - tell me why the certificate does not include anchoring (but includes lights at night)
Jonathan
I'd also criticise the charter companies for equipping their yachts with CQRs, Deltas, Brittany, Bugel and Bruce - no wonder people drag - but that is a different story. I'd like to think the majority here know the benefits of the new designs of anchors - they set without particular skill, they are dependable and they do not drag. A decent anchor over the charter income of a year would cost peanuts - but the enjoyment that they would support would, provide good memories that would last for years
zoidberg
Well-Known Member
The unloved ICC was long known as 'the gin and tonic certificate' - an indication of the low regard in which it was held in yacht clubs old and new.
Not something a gentleman would expect of another gentleman.
'Just another of those foreign things imposed on us...'
dunedin
Well-Known Member
What in heavens caused you to resurrect a 4 year old thread just to parade your views on the ICC.The unloved ICC was long known as 'the gin and tonic certificate' - an indication of the low regard in which it was held in yacht clubs old and new.
Not something a gentleman would expect of another gentleman.
'Just another of those foreign things imposed on us...'
Many of us were delighted to get this as a simple and effective way to meet the requirements for a Med charter holiday.
Your prejudices are laughable - not a “foreign thing imposed on us” and frankly not sure why anybody in yacht clubs, old or new, would be discussing ICCs - but suspect I wouldn’t want to be with any such snobs.
Graham376
Well-Known Member
My ICC was issued on basis of sailing qualification and is limited to 10m power. I am toying with the idea of changing to power boat so, how could I upgrade the ICC to cover >10m? Can it be done on assessment or would a power boat qualification be needed?
ylop
Well-Known Member
You either do Day Skipper (or higher) Power qualification OR you do a direct assessment. Keep in mind that DS Power is a quicker course the DS Sail. Do you NEED an ICC though? If you are just switching boat and its British flagged there is no requirement (perhaps in European canals?) is there?
BobnLesley
Well-Known Member
Is this just for ICC courses or are the RYA courses still ignoring it too?
When doing our Day and Coastal Skipper courses, almost thirty years ago anchoring was not part of the syllabus then, though we were fortunate in that the sailing school we learnt with did spend a couple of hours on teaching us to anchor and a further hour or so in the pub was spent discussing various anchors and scopes, as the owner/instructor of the sailing school considered it 'vital knowledge, even if the RYA don't think so.'
Graham376
Well-Known Member
Thanks, direct assessment would be easiest. All my sailing is in EU so, although I have never been asked to produce it, ICC is a requirement, CEVNI which I have anyway, only applies to some inland waterways.