Hunton ... Sad News

[JumbleDuck]

Totally understand what you're saying. But if you gave me the design and I built a boat from that, who would know? The chances of being found out are pretty slim?! And even then, how would anyone prove it was an xyz design?

In the case of a 6' dinghy, absolutely. It might be a little more obvious in the case of a 50m powerboat, and I'd certainly expect the designer to care if you were selling them ...

 

[JumbleDuck]

As an occasional builder and son of a designer, I have no doubt that people reuse plans that are passed on without paying the royalty. But, on boats of the order of £.5m, it would be lunacy to try and sell on the open market without sorting the IP rights. Open door for legal case, unless you can prove substantial différences in the design. In which case, why buy the old moulds?

This has just come up on Scuttlebutt, where someone has spotted some of the last Westerly sailing yacht moulds for sail in Scotland. Going very, very cheap ... but permission actually to build a yacht with them ain't included.

 

[Whitelighter]

This has just come up on Scuttlebutt, where someone has spotted some of the last Westerly sailing yacht moulds for sail in Scotland. Going very, very cheap ... but permission actually to build a yacht with them ain't included.

Got a link to the thread? Couldn't find it

 

[benjenbav]

So, in brief: the old moulds are shagged, the owners of the moulds don't own the IP to produce boats from them and, in any event, no-one today wants to buy the boats that would be produced from them if the boats could be produced at all.

To coin a dragonish phrase: 'I'm out'.

 

[DownWest]

This has just come up on Scuttlebutt, where someone has spotted some of the last Westerly sailing yacht moulds for sail in Scotland. Going very, very cheap ... but permission actually to build a yacht with them ain't included.

If it was for your use and not to sell, might be excusable. But would be more expensive than finding a decent example ready to go, so why bother?

 

[JumbleDuck]

Got a link to the thread? Couldn't find it

Sorry, my bad. It was on Reader To Reader: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...y-Konsort-moulds-on-Gumtree&highlight=gumtree

The chap who has the moulds also posted on For Sale: http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?4777

According to the Westerly Owners' Association wiki: "By early 2001, Adrian Clarkson, trading as Caledonian Yachts of Stirling, Scotland had bought the Konsort, Fulmar, Spirit, Merlin, Tempest and Storm moulds and licensed the use of their names from Ocean Yacht Sales. Although brochures of several of the yachts were produced, it is thought that only one Spirit and one Storm hull were ever moulded." (https://www.westerly-owners.co.uk/westerlywiki/index.php?title=A_Brief_Corporate_History_of_Westerly) so I presume this is the final remains of that enterprise.

If it was for your use and not to sell, might be excusable. But would be more expensive than finding a decent example ready to go, so why bother?

Spot on.

 

[petem]

Thanks, interesting info. But with regards to licensing, it's suggests that it's the name Westerly that is licensed as opposed to the right to build a boat from the mould. So could you legetimatly build a boat and call it a Northerly or some such name?

 

[JumbleDuck]

Thanks, interesting info. But with regards to licensing, it's suggests that it's the name Westerly that is licensed as opposed to the right to build a boat from the mould. So could you legetimatly build a boat and call it a Northerly or some such name?

That might save you from whoever owns the Westerly name now, but if you started selling them I am pretty sure you'd have Laurent Giles or Ed Dubois breathing down your neck.

 

[CLB]

That might save you from whoever owns the Westerly name now, but if you started selling them I am pretty sure you'd have Laurent Giles or Ed Dubois breathing down your neck.

Although Giles is long gone, the company bearing his name is still in existence, so you are probably right. However, ed Dubois, and the company bearing him name have both ceased to exist. Would that make a different to a Dubois design mould?

 

[Sealux]

I know someone who worked at Hunton, he said they destroyed the moulds themselves as they were getting old and the lease in the factory expired so it was pointless keeping them. He said Hunton paid him and everyone, they had no creditors, just the main shareholder who initiated the voluntary liquidation. It's like the car business, we are losing the quality independents to large conglomerates. Ferretti who own Riva, Itama and Pershing are leaping from one giant cash injection to another and are mostly Chinese owned. That's what niche companies have to compete against, but they can still offer something different.

 

[z1ppy]

I know someone who worked at Hunton, he said they destroyed the moulds themselves as they were getting old and the lease in the factory expired so it was pointless keeping them. He said Hunton paid him and everyone, they had no creditors, just the main shareholder who initiated the voluntary liquidation. It's like the car business, we are losing the quality independents to large conglomerates. Ferretti who own Riva, Itama and Pershing are leaping from one giant cash injection to another and are mostly Chinese owned. That's what niche companies have to compete against, but they can still offer something different.

That ties up with everything i have heard from close to the company and what most are saying here also.

What surprised me was what Hunton Yachts Ltd was all about and all the talk around the former Hunton MD and what she was going to do....

It pains me to say as i love huntons and have stuck my money where my mouth is in the past with a beautiful XRS37 but there is simply not a viable market for them in this climate.

add to that the wrong people at the helm and it is destined to fail. I said 5 years but honestly feel thats optimistic. Hunton Yachts Ltd is still active at companies house.

my guess is to try and build under licence in China and sell a lesser standard product (compared to those of 5 years ago) to the wealthy in Asia who want the British image.

Of course, the MD of Hunton has a track record of securing funding for expansion, just look how successful their trip into the US market was??

Nope. it makes me angry (and I'm a pretty laid back person) about what has happened. i feel sorry for Jeff looking back at what has become of his idea that was developed in a chicken shed....

 

[JumbleDuck]

Although Giles is long gone, the company bearing his name is still in existence, so you are probably right. However, ed Dubois, and the company bearing him name have both ceased to exist. Would that make a different to a Dubois design mould?

I meant the companies in both cases. I didn't realise the Dubois firm had closed, but Google tells me (http://www.yachtingworld.com/news/dubois-naval-architects-ltd-goes-into-liquidation-104758) that the IP was sold, so somebody would probably still get cross.

 

[Sealux]

Every company has to evolve to survive, if the market is changing Hunton has to change with it. Everyone at Hunton seemed to be passionate about the brand, it's hard to accept change, but that is what they must do to adapt to this increasingly global market. The US is massively competitive, but it it still dominates and they are right if they are pushing the brand there. We see this constantly now, the little brands just disappear, unless they adapt. I'm angry that so many brands just drop the quality to make bigger margins, at least Hunton are fighting to improve their offering and keep this legendary brand going. I admire everyone bucking this trend. Will Stirling is another company that is passionate about their work, he makes every boat by hand, search them up. Quite beautiful.

 

[thecommander]

I fail to understand how and why British ship building has gone to pot over the last 30 years, while at the same time our European cousins pump out thousands of production boats each year!!
We have a great ship building heritage.
We've built some fantastic production motor sand sailing yachts over the years.
Somehow the British companies get taken over by crocodiles who strip the business bare and sell everything off.

 

[jfm]

Somehow the British companies get taken over by crocodiles who strip the business bare and sell everything off.

Can you cite an example of that please?

 

[Sealux]

In two words "domestic market". Europe has the weather so sailing and yachting are universal, I have spent a lot of time in France, everyone sails there at some point, here it's a tiny percentage. Its very much weather based. Everyone follows the weather. A small company in France has a good domestic market that will support them, giving them chance to expand. Here you have to find a market outside of the UK to survive. Our boat building heritage is superb, but we need European or US markets to compete. You hit it on the head with the timeframe, the last 30 years have seen the rise of cheap travel, so its easy to boat abroad where the weather is guaranteed. People are buying where they're boating.

 

[Portofino]

the last 30 years have seen the rise of cheap travel, so its easy to boat abroad where the weather is guaranteed. People are buying where they're boating.

Yup --- I started with little knowledge in MoBo ,s in 2005 ---- happened to be Sunseeker ( could have been Priny ,FL -Sealine ) -cheapo flights mean -Med weather ,or not Uk at the time .---Spot on !
Once "abroad" --saw many other brands -Never heard or seen Itama until arrived in the Med -- ended up leaving one of our "domestic " brand .
Many many more interesting brands opened up ,blinkers removed from UK brands .

 

[jfm]

Cuts both ways though. Since I moved to Med, and became close to dealers for other brands, I've bought 4 new UK boats. Likewise there are lots of French flagged (= French owned) UK built new boats in my marina

 

[Portofino]

With this thread ,at one point a Hunton RS 43 was in the frame .
Seemed back in mid noughties a logical progression from a 12m Sunseeker .
@ the time SS s new superhawk 43 was also in the frame but lacked the interior accomodation for a growing family .
Both are narrow beamed and on sterndrives .Both could be had with Yanmars + Arnesons -- both - yuky combo interms of maintenance .
I wanted a low reviving bigger engined shafty ,Rivarama 44 ,various Itama ,Riviera 42 .
Even looked @ US stuff -Fountain 48 and Donzi forty something ,put off by EU importation hassle
Just v easy to get into AN OTHER EU boat once in the Med .Surrounded by them .
Unfortunately faced with with a barrage of other options any chance of Hunton was slim to zero .
If I was uk based say Solent and never went abroad ( spent all my leave in the Channel ) and thought LIBS and SIBS was the dogs dangly bits ,wore myopic UK boater specs ---then sure I guess I would have supported some aspect of the UK boat building scene.-again and again --becoming a good domestic customer .

Poor weather and Cheap flights are to blame .

 

[Ian h]

Received this today Via email


"Speedbird is now back in Greenwich CT and ready for the summer.

The boat will be touring the North East, stopping by Long Island, the Hamptons, Nantucket, Rhode Island and the bays along the way.

We have many exciting events planned so if you are interested in coming along and experiencing the Hunton ride, please let us know your exact location so we can send the invite to you and your guests.
In the meantime, if you would like to know more about the new Hunton 55 (video below) to be launched in July and the new Hunton 45, please contact Fiona Pool "

the link to the 55
http://www.hunton.co.uk/power/55-video

Also looks like they have new office address
Hunton Yachts Ltd, 64 New Cavendish Street, London, London, W1G 8TB, United Kingdom, www.hunton.co.uk