Humber to Solent in January

[onesea]

All things being equal survey good, I am stepping up in the world.
Will change that its a change in style of sailing, for better or worse...

35' foot 6' draft Racer/ Cruiser nearly 20 years old in Moderate condition.
Original Engine but starts and is a runner, no known faults.
Will have dinghy hand held VHF, GPS/ chart plotter, hand bearing compass, SARTS and flares as back up to boats equipment.

Initially I had planned on getting her transported to home waters.
Costs +/- a bit:
Mast down Lift on £250 (Northern Price )
Road Transport £800 - £1000
Lift off Mast up £400 (Southern Price)
Total £1500 - £2000

Its looking like now I can sneak a week or 3 off work mid-end Jan...
Long Range weather vaguely shows a high coming our way (little wind but cold).

A couple of Car runs: £200
Charts Publications: £150
Fuel: Motoring all the way: £250 1 Gallon an hour??
(Obviously will sail whenever possible)
Marina charges 6 nights?? £180
Food and Drink 1 week 3?x People £200
Total: Call it £1000 if all goes to plan...

I have no date for departure or Tide Stream atlases to hand and limited experience of East the coast.

As I can work out:
Humber-Lowestoft 100Nm
First "proper" passage 5? knots 20 Hours Over night Daylight Departure/ Arrival
Push Last of flood out of Humber and keep going till Lowestoft?
Keep Offshore beware of Sandbanks not too much traffic.

Lowestoft - Ramsgate 70 Nm
Lots of sandbanks traffic and wind farms to deal with crossing Thames?
Tides? Leave Lowestoft on last off Ebb? Day time crossings night depart/arrival or Night time crossing?

Ramsgate - Solent 130Nm
Various Options:
Dover, Eastbourne, Newhaven, Brighton, Solent.
Do what you can for tides...

Is sailing her home that daft an idea? 300Nm which would you choose?

Middle of summer longer days better weather? no problem, but its January and forecasts are not always that good.

Also any advice/ recommendation on any aspect of the above plans.

If shipping I will be able to collect boat from any Solent port to home port.

I have ideas but am very open to more input.

 

[ghostlymoron]

I bought my new boat in Brixham and sailed her back to Cardigan Bay. Wonderful experience about 300nm also. Had a crew of 5. Unfortunately I had a prolonged stop in Milford Haven so it ended up costing quite a bit but wouldn't have missed it for the world. I would recommend having a short leg to start with to find and fix out what's working and what's not. (we found out at nightfall that our steaming light didn't and the autohelm packed up rounding Lands End). Also had a few inches of water in the cabin when we reached Falmouth (stern gland).
Yea, go for it. Days are short in January though - can't you wait?

 

[Downsman]

I've done it 3 times single handed but in October, so a bit warmer at least. Grimsby marina to Brighton each time, using anchorages not marinas.
This was my route...others who may not have done it..will not agree..
Humber to Wells-next-the Sea. I anchored for a sleep off the fairway bouy, a bit rolly but I was knackered.
Wells to the river Stour, there's a bay North side of the river just along from Harwich/ Dovercourt Golf Club..can't remember what it's called but I was there for a couple of tides.
Harwich to the small Downs, just North of Deal, Kent, inshore of the Goodwin Sands channels there's an anchorage. Deal to Dungerness, had to anchor to wait for a tide, you can anchor on the West side close to the old power station or if you're careful on the East side of the Ness.Then Dungerness to Brighton.
(visiting relatives in Grimsby.Soooo much nicer than the motorways..

 

[BlueSkyNick]

35' foot 6' draft Racer/ Cruiser nearly 20 years old in Moderate condition.
.

What flavour is she? Sigma 33 ?

 

[Beadle]

I'd have a think about how you leave the Humber.

Not sure where the boat is but I would assume Hull as most likely.

To arrive at the Humber mouth (about 20 miles from Hull) against the flood tide will be difficult. The flood can run at 3-4 knots (more in places). If you start in the marina at Hull you can't get out until half tide - so you won't make Spurn until the ebb is running.

Not sure why you want to arrive at Humber mouth at High tide, the flood tide in the North Sea runs Southerly so I think you would be better arriving just before low water and getting 6 hours of tidal lift on the way south. Also the river tends to be a bit quieter on the last part of the ebb.

I have usually left the marina at Hull shortly after high water and run downriver with the tide and then north or south from there. Even going North there is much less tide at sea than in the river.

You will need to take the Southerly TSS - or at least close outside it (very close in places) From there things are fairly straightforward - Most people I think will take the Dowsing Channel and then pick up the buoyed channels around the Norfolk coast.

Hope you have a good trip.

 

[onesea]

I'd have a think about how you leave the Humber.

Not sure where the boat is but I would assume Hull as most likely.

To arrive at the Humber mouth (about 20 miles from Hull) against the flood tide will be difficult. The flood can run at 3-4 knots (more in places). If you start in the marina at Hull you can't get out until half tide - so you won't make Spurn until the ebb is running.

Not sure why you want to arrive at Humber mouth at High tide, the flood tide in the North Sea runs Southerly so I think you would be better arriving just before low water and getting 6 hours of tidal lift on the way south. Also the river tends to be a bit quieter on the last part of the ebb.

I have usually left the marina at Hull shortly after high water and run downriver with the tide and then north or south from there. Even going North there is much less tide at sea than in the river.

You will need to take the Southerly TSS - or at least close outside it (very close in places) From there things are fairly straightforward - Most people I think will take the Dowsing Channel and then pick up the buoyed channels around the Norfolk coast.

Hope you have a good trip.

Thanks, I did say I had no tidal current info with me (away with work at moment)... Cannot seem to find any online...

Long time since I have been on north sea so was running from memory. Similar advice for next leg across Thames would be appreciated.

I can see no other real safe havens for that draft along the east coast? hence the 100nm first leg would not be asking if it was 50Nm

Interesting no has yet said not to sail it I think Allot will depend on survey results and weather windows.

I want to get it south as she could do with a spruce up and bit of TLC, well thats what I hope the surveyor says...

 

[Beadle]

Afraid I can't help you there, never been South of the Orwell.

The North Sea isn't as bad as its sometimes made out to be althoughyou are absolutely right to watch the weather before you set off.

If it turns nasty you are proably best advised to press on, particularly if there is any East in the wind. Getting into wind against tide conditions around the Humber mouth is not any kind of fun - and can be very dangerous, a strong NW against the flood tide is particularly unpleasant and can be really dangerous.

The other thing to watch going South from the Humber is the way the bottom is a series of long sandbanks running roughly parallel with the Lincs coast - all submerged - but with any sort of sea running you can get nasty breaking waves over the top of he banks so its a good idea to keep your track in the deep water channels between the banks.

Not trying to put you off - last time I came in the opposite direction it was a beautiful moonlit night and almost flat calm.

Cheers

 

[PilotWolf]

Never sailed it but done the route many times...

Humber not a problem with up to date charts (from VTS), monitor/talk to VTS as usually very helpful. But be aware it is a busy commercial area.

I would forget Wells as a viable bolt hole unless you know it well or weather is good. Be aware of windfarm work/vessel in the whole area.

Approaches to Lowestoft are busy with commercial traffic, including windfarm vessels.

Thames traffic and TSS can be daunting but again good planning ensures it isn't that bad.

Better to go around the Goodwins unless you have good nav kit and updated charts.

Dover area busy - caution for ferry traffic.

Rest of trip fairly benign - be careful around Selsey and the Mixon.

The Solent is the Solent!

PM if I can help with more detailed parts of the trip.

W.

 

[Nostrodamus]

As has been said there will be a big difference depending on where you are to start with. Hull has less of a time window due to the lock and tides. Grimsby is nearer the mouth and has got a better time window to get out of.
If you have never sailied the hot chocolate of the Humber before and are leaving from Hull this will be the trickiest part of the jouney.

Last year I sailed from Ipswich to Hull in one trip in January and although the sea state was not to bad the temps were well down in the minus and Hull marina froze over the following day.

When leaving Hull to come south we were also limited by draught to Lowerstoft. (Can be a bad entrance is bad weather, tides and go for Hamilton on the right which has more space to sort yourself out). The bouys near to the windfarm and Lowerstoft can be a bit confusing.

We left Hull early evening so as to do the Humber in the light, the boring part overnight and arrived in Lowerstoft during the day (I was also doing all the sailing alone and the chart plotter was playing up). I could also see all the damm fishing pots from Wells on down and there were a lot.

The rest of the jouney to the south coast is pretty strait forward.

We are in France now and have been joined by another boat from Hull who left there at the begining of December.

If you want advice about the Humber PM me and I will put you in contact with the sailing club there to help you out. Humber charts can be bought from the chandalry in Hull but change on a regular basis due to moving sandbanks.

I would say sail as you will enjoy it if the weather is right. Get it wrong and it won't be much fun.

Any specific qustions just PM me.

 

[alexrunic]

if your leaving from hull, I leave just after High Water, if leaving from Grimsby leave 2 hours after (the last of the free flow on the lock) There is plenty of water keep just out side the channels with a keen eye on the depth sounder. If your leaving in darkness or poor vis, radio VTS Humber and they will plot your position and warn other shipping of your position as required.

Your ideal time to arrive at the Rosse Spit Buoy is around Low Water, from there you can head south east towards the Docking Shoal follow the channel between race bank and the Docking shoal to off Cromer, keep well off shore at Cromer 5 miles min due to the huge number of crab pots. (not sure how many in winter)

There is quite a lot of shipping off Cromer and there is wind farm works off Lincolnshire and the Docking Shoal.

If you want to break the journey, Wells is highly recommended it is assessable by a very well marked channel. From the Grimsby you should make Wells easily for H.W. If you contact the Harbour Master in advance he will come out and show you in. He might also let you use the outer harbour if there's space. Wells is not recommended in winds above F5 with any north in them. Depending on the tide access is H.W +- 2. Leave as early as you can when you leave to get the best out of the fair tide.

Another option although not that far from Lowestoft (25nm) is Sea Palling you can anchor in a pool in between the stone break waters the middle on has the deepest water. This is only good in off shore winds!

 

[tillergirl]

For current notices to mariners affecting the section of your journey between the Wash and Ramsgate have a look here:

http://www.crossingthethamesestuary.com/page9.html

There is a warning about 'significant changes' in the banks off-lying Lowesoft but no detail at the moment. I suspect sticking to the centre of the main channels will suffice. On the temporary notices pages you will find details of current work on the London Array wind farm: note that the Knock Deep if being 'filled' with foundations at present so that is best avoided by going outside the Knock Sand. Have a look at the Sunk Precautionary Area which will lie astride your route down. It's a precautionary area not a prohibited zone but you should be aware of what the big stuff will be intending - which is generally making for Felixstowe or heading down the Black Deep into the London River. There is a two-way route for smaller stuff outside of the Long Sand and Knock Sand. Boltholes south of Lowestoft? Harwich Harbour with a choice of Shotley Marina (24hr lock) and all the facilities you could want or Halfpenny Pier on the Harwich side.

 

[photodog]

You may wish to look at having this done by a proffessional crew... say Halcyon of this parish for example...

Cost will be circa what you will spend yourself...

And they will be more flexible than yourself if the weather should go pear shaped... ergo they can go with short notice not impinged by your holiday time...

I would highly recomend you get a quote for having it done this way... its far less stressfull and the costs imho are comparable to moving it yourself.

 

[tinkicker0]

Very interesting and informative thread guys. Thanks

 

[ghostlymoron]

You may wish to look at having this done by a proffessional crew... say Halcyon of this parish for example...

Cost will be circa what you will spend yourself...

And they will be more flexible than yourself if the weather should go pear shaped... ergo they can go with short notice not impinged by your holiday time...

I would highly recomend you get a quote for having it done this way... its far less stressfull and the costs imho are comparable to moving it yourself.

Don't agree. You'll learn a lot about your new boat by tackling a long voyage in it and have a wonderful time on the way - hopefully

 

[Halo]

The first leg is definately the toughest and have done this trip several times. I generally agree with previous contributors but woudl also add
1. Dont try and push the Humber tide - use it even if this means a little more adverse tide on the way further down
2. Definately forget Wells unless you are in a small bilge keeler - plan for a single passage Humber to Lowestoft
2. Be patient and start when the weather is right - W wind and not left with a swell from NE E or SE from previous weather
3. Plan a direct straight line route from Humber mouth to Cockle Buoy on N Norfolk coast - this avoids overfalls and much of shipping traffic will pass outside you
4. There is a shallow patch to avoid then you can take inner passage due S to Lowestoft
5. 2 lots of pontoon berths in Lowestoft close to entry- Royal Norfolk and Suffolk recommended
6. If you run out of time or suitable weather en route a trip up the Orwell to Ipswich is recomended and you can leave her there till next time- good marinas and you can walk to train from there ( suggest traveling N to Humber on train also - very short walk to Hull Marina).
7. Dont miss the opportunity to sail her home - its what she is made for and you will remember the trip forever
8. Suggest a shake down trip within the Humber - you can easily get from Hull to Humber Mouth (say round Bull Sand Fort) if you take last lock out of Hull on falling tide and come back in time for first lock back in - you will be amazed at the average speed you can do riding the muddy tide.
good luck
Martin

 

[alexrunic]

The first leg is definately the toughest and have done this trip several times. I generally agree with previous contributors but woudl also add
1. Dont try and push the Humber tide - use it even if this means a little more adverse tide on the way further down
2. Definately forget Wells unless you are in a small bilge keeler - plan for a single passage Humber to Lowestoft
2. Be patient and start when the weather is right - W wind and not left with a swell from NE E or SE from previous weather
3. Plan a direct straight line route from Humber mouth to Cockle Buoy on N Norfolk coast - this avoids overfalls and much of shipping traffic will pass outside you
4. There is a shallow patch to avoid then you can take inner passage due S to Lowestoft
5. 2 lots of pontoon berths in Lowestoft close to entry- Royal Norfolk and Suffolk recommended
6. If you run out of time or suitable weather en route a trip up the Orwell to Ipswich is recomended and you can leave her there till next time- good marinas and you can walk to train from there ( suggest traveling N to Humber on train also - very short walk to Hull Marina).
7. Dont miss the opportunity to sail her home - its what she is made for and you will remember the trip forever
8. Suggest a shake down trip within the Humber - you can easily get from Hull to Humber Mouth (say round Bull Sand Fort) if you take last lock out of Hull on falling tide and come back in time for first lock back in - you will be amazed at the average speed you can do riding the muddy tide.
good luck
Martin

what's wrong with Wells for a 6ft draft?? Plenty of 6ft draft vessels enter wells with out any fuss at all. If your in any doubt give Robert Smith a call at wells Harbour. Most deep draft fin and long keelers go along side the Albertous or if there's space in the outer harbour where i believe you will stay afloat. A local fisher man has just purchased a large fishing boat drawing 2.35M http://www.wellsharbour.co.uk/na362.htm

This is from the wells website

Max draft 3m at HW Springs. Most vessel movements 2hrs before to 2hrs after HW, dependent on draft. Continuously dredged from 2009. Contact Harbour Master for latest access information.

http://www.wellsharbour.co.uk/getin.htm

 

[Halo]

Nothing wrong with Wells it is a beautiful place and well worth a special trip BUT you can only get in and out for a very short time once per 12 hours and not with weather coming from the North.
Last time I went there I came in on the advice of the Harbour Master and did some yacht surfing on the way in. - Seriously scary.
If entering the the dark for the first time the winding fairway is very difficult and it is unlikely that his GPS map is current. In January the chances of coming in in daylight in any 24 houir period is worse than even.
It is a long way out of the way to visit Wells if on passage Humber to S Coast and inconvenient if you get stuck there. So for those reasons I would not recommend a route via Wells for a 36 footer.
Say again Wells is great but perhaps not in the case

 

[alexrunic]

I think it would be the perfect place to break the trip if you did not want to do it in one hit. Bearing in mind it being cold in January it might be worth a thought. As I had previously said its not a the place to go in a winds F5 and over if there is any North in the wind. I've done the channel countless times in the dark it is very well marked and lit.

Why is an up to date GPS chart, needed, surely pilotage is the correct method of navigation. I would never use GPS to enter any port, no.1 eye ball is better than any GPS set.

Robert or his assistants will come out to the Fairway Buoy to meet you if your unsure.

With an eye on the weather and if your only stopping over between tides you are not going to get weathered in.

Sorry to be so defensive, but I would of thought a way to break the journey is worth consideration at this time of year. I've done several long trips in the Winter and maybe I'm a jessy, but i find it very cold in the middle of the night.

 

[photodog]

Don't agree. You'll learn a lot about your new boat by tackling a long voyage in it and have a wonderful time on the way - hopefully

Fine if the trip is in July... but in January its gonna be a ball ache with schedule driven by his holiday, short days.. and weather.

Another thought might be to put the trip back by 5 or so months... cheap mooring in Hull off season... and then do the delivery when the conditions are a bit nicer and take some time over it...

A rushed winter delivery in a new to him boat of dubious parentage is not so much a learning experience as a opportunity for angst...

 

[Halo]

I think it would be the perfect place to break the trip if you did not want to do it in one hit. Bearing in mind it being cold in January it might be worth a thought. As I had previously said its not a the place to go in a winds F5 and over if there is any North in the wind. I've done the channel countless times in the dark it is very well marked and lit.

Why is an up to date GPS chart, needed, surely pilotage is the correct method of navigation. I would never use GPS to enter any port, no.1 eye ball is better than any GPS set.

Robert or his assistants will come out to the Fairway Buoy to meet you if your unsure.

With an eye on the weather and if your only stopping over between tides you are not going to get weathered in.

Sorry to be so defensive, but I would of thought a way to break the journey is worth consideration at this time of year. I've done several long trips in the Winter and maybe I'm a jessy, but i find it very cold in the middle of the night.

I agree longer distance winter cruising is demanding and needs a good crew.
Given the choice I would move her later in the year and take the opportunity to have some experience trips in the Humber and get any professional jobs required done at the cheaper rates available in the North before moving her South at Easter or during the Diamond Jubilee weekend.
The recent "continuous" dredging at Wells is a good development but the website still says "On neap tides, Wells Harbour may be entered by craft drawing up to 6' (1.75m) at high water or at most one hour before or after high water"
I expect we have given him enough food for thought here. I would certainly have Wells marked out, with access times and pilotage clearly noted as a precautionary potential stop over but my personal preference, to achieve his target of getting round the S coast in short order, would be to do Humber- Lowestoft in a oner