heavy weather posts making me nervous

[zefender]

There's been a flurry of posts in recent days about the seaworthiness of modern designs. There's also been much talk about the value of sailing experience in heavy weather. It's making me nervous.

I have a Bavaria 40 (that in itself should guarantee plenty of replies!), bought new last year, my first boat (apart from dinghies as a boy). I've sailed on charter 'holidays' abroad and in the UK for about 20 years. I've Yachtmaster theory, Day Skipper practical, GMDSS, First Aid etc. I've crossed the channel twice as skipper and helmed from Plymouth to Falmouth in F7/8 in a Contessa 32. But I am short on long passage experience. My boat has pretty much all the kit it needs (radar coming soon).

I'm planning to sail to Portugal from the UK in the beginning of July, poodle about and then return beginning of September. A two month break from work doesn't come often! I plan to take my daughter (aged 16 who can tie a warp and helm in fair weather), and two crew with about the same experience as me, though one is a Diesel mechanic (handy!). I'm pretty cautious and have no interest in testing myself against the elements (but I'm not weedy either). I've read every log of Biscay passages I can lay my hands on and studied the charts, opting for the deepest water (direct) route. I've read Heavy Weather Sailing and others, invested in three million miles of warp, series drogue, trisail etc. I'm a (now poor) chandler's dream. I could recite nearly every line of YM horror stories (lessons learned etc).

I'm beginning to worry whether or not my lack of long distance passage making and exposure to heavy weather smacks of arrogance or stupidity. I feel confident in the boat and my abilities and my crew. I understand that I've got only about 4% chance of bad weather (whatever that is) crossing Biscay and down past Atlantic Portugal.

Am I being daft in planning to go? Should I be a good boy and stay in the Solent until I'm more grown up? Or should I just relax now and think of the fun it will be?

 

[tony_brighton]

You sound well prepared - probably as well prepared as you can get before giving it a try. Surely there is only so much value in slogging to Cherbourg and back - whats the old adage about the same experience repeated many times?

 

[ccscott49]

You have enough experience to attempt a journey like this, just think of it as 15 channel crossings in one go, the only difference will be you will do two or three overnighters, after the first one who cares. You also sound like you are concerned enough to not take risks! Look at the long and medium range forecasts, starting in about may, to get an idea of the patterns developing in the atlantic etc. You'll be fine! My longetst passage before biscay was the north sea and the northsea was a bloody sight worse then biscay! When you get to Portugal (Lagos) I'll buy you a beer! Have you considered the YM rally portugal? I didn't do it that way, but it might be a consideration. Lots do.

 

[tony_brighton]

ps - forgot to say make sure you know how to use all this new kit

 

[Guest]

Seems to me that:

1. 40' is a solid length of boat. It can take in its stride some weather that may seem more dire on a smaller boat.

2. Have in mind on the other hand that since things are bigger on a big boat, they can be more difficult to control. eg. wrestling with a really huge genoa on a pitching foredeck when you're tired cold hungry and sick may not be pleasant. Or may just be physically beyond you. One likely reaction is to put off doing it until you can't do it.

3. But you can take extra crew. Try and take along one or two people who you know have good stomachs are stoic and will go on churning out tea etc. as things get worse, and will always stand their watch.

4. you can only find out how 3. are by going sailing with them on some difficult passages. If no one leaps to mind, then try doing some warm up passages of over 24 hours trying out different people. You'll know when you've struck gold. you need someone who (assuming you're skipper) can taking over the boat while things are difficult and allow you to get some rest/recover your stomach. And will get the genoa down when it's unpleasant when you don't feel like it.

 

[romany123]

Zedfender
Best book on heavy weather I have ever read is Storm Tactics Handbook by Lin and Larry Pardey....I know you have spent a fortune on goodies already but if you havent got this book I can highly recomend it....Brilliant
Best of luck mate
Fair winds

Dave

 

[summerwind]

You have proved my theory that paying attention to negative people will eventually cause you to behave in a negative way. There are a whole population of negative thinkers out there who are highly delighted to cause you the maximum amount of aprehension about sailing.

They want another person to do what they do - park your boat in the marina and polish it. If they are challenged, they have a veritable library of excuses as to why it would be dangerous to venture out today.

I must admit that I suspect that a trip across Biscay for a first off-shore trip as skipper might be biting off a large-ish chunk, but there will be four of you. Today's weather infomation systems on the web should give you basis for making a solid decision as to whether or not to go.

Please don't take much notice of the Jerimiahs of the world. Take your new boat and get out there. That's how you will get experience and come to the understanding that any stupid bastard can be negative and dream up any excuse for not doing things. Positive thinking, preparation and common sense will provide a much fuller life and an excellent return on the investment you have made in your boat and its equipment.

(Rant over. Thank you for your attention.)

 

[romany123]

I will second that

Dave

 

[Boatman]

Only comment I would make is that if you do by chance get anything bad, you might have an issue with crew, you seem to have a possible weak link. You need to set up your watches carefully you won?t be able to stay up all the time and on long passages tiredness is a big concern.

At the end of the day just go and do it, and enjoy, the chances of ?bad? weather at that time are year in Biscay are pretty slim, I think there was only one day I said I wasn?t going out (into Biscay) last year and that?s because the wife gets seasick.

 

[ParaHandy]

Me too! Enjoy yourselves.

 

[AndrewB]

Don\'t worry ... this isn\'t an ocean passage.

Go from Plymouth or Falmouth to Camaret (Brest) in a little over a day, then from Cameret to Corunna in 3 days, Corunna to Camarinas (Finesterre) in 1 day, then its all coast-hopping.

This way, you can be sure of a safe weather window throughout. There's always a 3-day forecast posted at Camaret. Going south, Biscay can be nasty in a blow specially the northern part before the shelf, and the alternative with a light crew is to stand a long way out.

 

[Guest]

There's a difference between being negative and being prepared and using common sense.

I haven't noticed any of the posts below being negative. Just a discussion of boat characteristics. There is very little that anyone has said in any post in any of the threads on boat characteristics and heavy weather (two different subjects which perhaps have been mixed up a bit too much) that I would disagree with.

But I do think that Zefender is right to be wondering. By asking himself the type of question that he is asking he has a chance to address his concerns. That does not mean he should not cross, it means he should deal with any concern that he has (esp. weak crew), and he should assume for the purpose of his planning that the 4% heavy weather WILL happen during his crossing. Then he should plan his crossing accordingly, whatever that means (could be more experienced crew, could be shorter hops, could be pracrising putting up his storm sailds in really heavy weather, could just be realising that he is already prepared and able to cope with whatever the sea may throw at him and going for it).

 

[Twister_Ken]

Assuming your are staging out of Plymouth or Falmouth you're looking at something like 4/5/6 days depending on breeze and diesel. I'd have thought if you can afford to wait in the W country until there looks like a secure weather window, you could set out feeling confident. One thing that really gets in the way of prudence is a deadline. If you're not fussed about leaving on an exact date, but can take your time to pick your departure that's reassuring. And if you can't spot a five day weather window, you can always stage to S Brittany, stay there if the weather doesn't happen like you want, or take a second departure if it plays ball.

Of more concern would be the trip back, against the current, and a time of year that's a bit blowier. But by then, you and crew will have more confidence in the boat and each other, and again if you have the luxury of picking your departure date according to forecasts that helps a lot.

 

[ccscott49]

Coming back, most people with sailing yachts, either head out to the azores and then to the uk avoiding the portugese trades, or sail at night when the trades die, a couple of friends do it every year, as they charter in the uk and winter in lagos, one does it one way the other the other, if that makes sense! Both arrive about the same time!

 

[zefender]

Hello cc

You keep that beer cool - I'll see you there. We can spend hours chatting about lobster pots (or maybe not!). Nearer the time, I'll mail you. I thought you were on your rig now?

Sound advice re Azores dog-leg. Night-time hops (under power presumably) seem a pretty good option too though.

 

[tcm]

Re: radar

agreed.

I note that the radar is/will be new, and makes for less heartstopping x-channel and offshore. I'd suggest practising with this as oftewn as poss, every time out, so that everyone can check and know what/where things are in good viz as practise for being in zero viz.

Otherwwise, zef, you sound apprehensive but excited, which is about right imho.

 

[david_e]

Looks like your confidence has increased already! As well as your preparation you are quite right to ask the peeps on this forum because the availability of good experience and advice is invaluable. I am no expert but a couple of thoughts come to mind

1 Is there the possibility of teaming up with another yacht to do the trip? Someone mentioned the YM trip as another option.

2 Re Corunna, I think (I stress think) that this was port was mentioned in an article about the same trip you are planning by YW editor Andrew Bray en route to the ARC. They said that if you were considering stopping at Corunna, don't and go to another port nearby. If you want to know the mag/issue send PM and I will dig it out for you.

Otherwise good luck, sounds great.

 

[zefender]

Yes, I did think about the YM Rally Portugal thingie but the timings just don't work. same thing the ARC Biscay triangle event.

I too heard that La Caruna is a bit of a dump and well worth missing if possible.

Another detail....Since marinas (OK I'm a softie) are pretty well spaced in parts down the coast, does anyone know if they tend to be full to capacity in July/Aug?

 

[tcm]

Re: getting a berth

1. if many marinas together, don't ask by radio, just drive in, plonk on visitors pontoon, then ask.

2. go very early, before 1 pm, for abetter chance if you haven't booked ahead.

3. Or, go very late, after they've all gorn home. Lash up on the fuel pontoon if absolutely necessary.

4. In the capitainerie, when they say there's no space, don't turn around and go. Gesticulate that you are very small 40' boat. Wifey often more succesful at getting a berth.

5. It is an owner who owns the berth, not the marina, for bout 75% of med marians. So they're (sort of) full all the time. Not at all like Port solent who sublet and give u no money - at PS it's not your space, it's premiers or whoever. Have a good chat with people coming the other way and ask where they are based: in many marinas for many annual renters it simply ain't worth releasing the berth becos any rental money goes to the berth owner not the annual renter.

6 often, when a berth is released, even the owner gets no sodding money for the first three days. hence you may often be okay from the marina for three days but no longer, otherwise they have to give dosh to owner. This known to berthowners as the "3-day shuffle". Asking for a short term, and being fine about moving about will be fine. Buy bottle of wine if they are nice to u.

7. July aug much better than other times to find a temporary berth, as the boats move around, whereas off season they all stay put.

8. On no account radio in with all that bollox about someone on board being poorly , cos they know it's rubbish, and if someone was really poorly, yerd just drive in anyway.

9. Calling ahead with mobile phone is ok, but often they only tentaively say yes ish possibly maybe, but loads book several places and don't turn up.

10. Places like gib are used a lot for over winter, so usually even more space in summer, not less.


<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by kimhollamby on Wed Mar 27 09:31:38 2002 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Twister_Ken]

Re: radar

Just to throw a Spaniard in the works, let's not forget that all this fuss and bother started with questions of stability.

Now calculate the effect on stability of putting x kilos of radar y meters above the water line...