Guidance buying first boat please.

[Stuart Adair]

Hello all,

Newby here who is starting to research our first boat. After many years cruising on the Norfolk Broads we've decided to buy our own. We live in Tewkesbury and will be cruising the River Severn down as far as Gloucester, and the Avon up to Stratford. Mostly just popping out for the day but we'd like to have the odd night away, and with Grandchildren that'll be a min 4 people.

I've been looking through the ads online and I think something like a Norman 27ft will be big enough and in the right price range, i.e <£10,000' ish.

I've spent a significant amount of my life lying under cars so I know my way around an engine, but what am I looking for with a boat engine in particular? What are the things that I need to check out before buying?

I've seen a fair few boats for sale with pictures of them in the water but where the boat is currently on a trailer. Am I right in saying that we should only look at boats where we can take then for a test drive (Which seems to make sense to me). If you're selling a boat that's not in the water would you expect to have to put it back in the water to demonstrate its safe for a potential buyer ?

How long does a boat safety certificate last and what would be the least amount of time left on a current certificate a buyer should expect ?

What would an experienced buyer look for when first viewing a boat ?

Does a Canal and River Licence cover me for both the River Avon and River Severn or would I need separate licences for each river ?


Appreciate its a long list of questions and I'm grateful for any guidance you can give.

Stu

 

[Tranona]

Suggest you buy a book on the subject - there is a good one available from the RYA.

Just a couple of observations. The sort of budget you have and the type of boat means you will be looking at older boats and you will find a huge range of conditions and variations in specifications and equipment. The three main things to look for are the condition of the basic structure, its equipment and particularly the engine, which may be either an inboard or an outboard. It is unlikely with an older boat that much of it apart from the basic structure will be original so you will be looking at both the quality of the replacement and its installation. This is particularly true of engines.

The normal process of buying (as explained in the book) is to view the boat, determine as far as you can that it is the boat for you and make an offer subject to survey. If the offer is accepted then you employ a qualified surveyor to inspect the craft and its condition to confirm it is as described. Inevitably he will find faults which can range from minor to "don't touch this with a bargepole". if you are satisfied, perhaps with a bit of negotiation over faults you have a trial to see that everything works in action, then pay and the boat is yours.

Some boats are sold out of the water which allows an inspection of the underwater bits, others in the water which may mean lifting to inspect underwater as part of the survey. There are pros and cons of each. You need to recognise that most boats are sold privately so are not covered by consumer law so it is important to satisfy yourself about its condition before you pay. Whether you are able to get a test drive depend entirely on the owner and generally there is a resistance to this for all sorts of reasons. However an owner may well take you out if the boat is in full commission if he thinks it will result in a sale.

There is a recognised process of documentation which includes a contract you sign when you have agreed the price together with a deposit and a Bill of Sale at transfer of title. Again explained in the book. If the seller has appointed a broker then he will do all this for you including any negotiation with the seller as he acts as agent for him.

Good luck with your search.

 

[maby]

That looks like a plastic (as in GRP) boat so, provided the hull has not been physically damaged, there is little that can go wrong with it that you can't fix reasonably easily. The condition of the engine would be my primary concern - boat engines tend to be rather inaccessible and that can significantly complicate a repair that would be relatively easy on a car. Look for something with a good service history on the engine and carry out all the standard checks - no oil in the water, no water in the oil, no excessive crankcase fumes or pressure etc... There's nothing particularly special about a marine engine - they tend to be quite low-tech compared with engines in road vehicles - just much harder to get to or get out if they need replacing.

As far as the condition of the rest of the boat is concerned, provided the price is right, it really does not matter too much. Plastic hulls are very forgiving - a few days with buffing compound, an electric polisher and a lick of paint will refresh even a seriously dirty and scratched hull. Equally, most of the interior can be stripped out and replaced by any reasonably competent carpenter.

 

[Stuart Adair]

Thank you for your replies, and I'll take your advice with the book.

 

[Martin&Rene]

Buy the March Yachting Monthly, as it covers a similar question.

 

[Dutch01527]

I live just north of you on the Severn. A few observations.

1) The Seven and Avon are managed by different organisations. You need a licence for the River you moor the boat on. You then also need to buy day passes for the other one. Absolute rip off given that your main licence might well cost over £300 per annum.
2) Boat safety certificate last four years from memory and costs about £200. However, they change the rules often and a new certificate might mean some significant upgrades if you are unlucky. Get a boat with a new or nearly new certificate would be my advice.
3) Do not do what I did and buy a planning sports boat that looks good and is capable of 30 knots. Drank petrol like water and was a pain to manoeuvre at displacement speeds used on the River.
4) Do buy a Diesel, much better for the river. I would also favour a self draining cockpit. A mate of mine had his boat sink because it’s cover blew partially off and it filled with water in two weeks in the winter.

Upton upon Severn is also a good destination, especially when the music festivals are on.

 

[Stuart Adair]

Thank you for your good advice

 

[Max Campbell]

You could go for an outboard type. We have a Viking 28 with a 30HP Honda outboard.

I'd rather see the hull out of the water, myself. Just check it over that it looks and feels smooth, and that it's gelcoat, not painted over. If it does appear to be painted over, look out for receipts from a pro.

All river cruisers behave much the same under power, as long as the engine does work, so the only advantage of a test drive is checking engine function, really.

You will need a good pram hood / cockpit canopy, and they do have a limited life, so check it out for waterproofness and wear.

 

[Stuart Adair]

Many thanks for your reply. I've seen a few boats offered with outboards, but most seem to come with inboards. Does an outboard offer any advantages ? (Or am I risking opening up a whole new debate with that question )

 

[snowbird30ds]

Most folk either love or hate outboards so good impartial advice isn't always easy to find, same with outdrives vs shafts, modern 4 stroke outboards are very good these days and take up less boat space, I had an outboard powered norman 25 for a few years and loved it for inland rivers, now I do sea I wouldn't be without inboard diesel power, a lot of the norman 27's are inboard diesel with enfield outdrive which can be badly neglected but are fine if looked after, spares are available from bob knowles plant.
In general the bss has got easier as it's evolved so an older bss shouldn't be a problem and most examiners want to help you pass for smaller issues, canopies cost a fortune so check carefully for condition, as for service history you are looking for the sort of boat that has often been owner serviced so with no visable history can vary from lovingly cared for to minimally bodged so you're own eyes are the best judge.
The normans are good sturdy boats for inland and narrowbeam so you can go anywhere on the canal network but if you want to go into lumpier water look elsewhere.
you can pick up a fair bit of good advice at normanboats.co.uk where they have a forum aimed at smaller inland river cruisers.

 

[Stuart Adair]

Thank you for your advice

 

[No Regrets]

Your post caught my attention, because many years ago (Well around 10 years, so much less than the normal forumites boating experience) I started to investigate boats for the Thames, and ended up on the Norman owners forum, with talk of scams of sand in the bow to make them steer better etc etc....

However, I never bought a Norman, and looking at them don't feel sad, as there are many better boat marques to choose from, all different, all good and bad in their own way. Norman just doesn't stand out other than in a nostalgic way.

All I can say is this. £10,000 is a fair chunk of cash, and enough to buy an old but worthy vessel, which will almost certainly keep you satisfied as long as you continually throw lots of time and money at it (depending on your running cost budget, whereby it is easy to increase your running budget so somebody else does all the work, or alternatively you can do it yourself and reduce said budget significantly!)

Keep on researching, these forums are very valuable for knowledge, and spend wisely. If I may be so bold, keep to practical good quality popular boats for the best experience, and avoid flashy bling things which tend to fall short on long term satisfaction.

Good luck! :encouragement:

 

[Stuart Adair]

Sounds like some sound advice to me. Thank you very much

 

[Cotillion]

Whatever you buy will look like a boat but in reality it will be a hole in the sea where your money will disappear. That said you’ll have a lot of fun chasing it.

 

[Stuart Adair]

LOL