Giving way..

[winch2]

Thanks everyone, all good points with plenty to consider.....At the end of the day we're sailing a slow, old, heavy Gaff which is only happy pointing in a straight line.
She tacks ok with a backed jib but its the getting going again which is the tricky bit so ferocious tacking back and forth in a narrow water way is not an option.. we just point, take a careful look at whats in the middle distance, go and pay strict attention to the rules, only this time I admit to being slightly overwhelmed and should have indicated my intentions and got on with it.
Regarding the shouting question. At my local club where incidentally I'm not a part of the racing lot. On any given race day the wailing cries of ..."Starboard"! can be heard for miles, up and down channel...haha.

 

[Birdseye]

It's a hard one. On one hand, as we all know racing boats have no extra rights. On the other hand, if a cruiser has to change course there is not normally any loss in the purpose of their outing, whereas if a racer has to change course there often IS a loss in the purpose of their outing.

The voice of reason.

But firstly you cannot assume that the colregs apply - see General rule 1. And dont forget that many "harbours" not only have bye laws that superceed Colregs but they often have areas of coverage that few sailors know about. As an example, one of our local harbours has a set of by laws that go down channel for 4 miles and dont even apply in the physical harbour itself. So when pottering about in a restricted area such as you describe you need common sense rather than just legalism. And you also need the consideration not to mess up someone elses day simply because the rules, or what you think are the rules, says you can do so.

The large majority of dinghy sailors dont know colregs any more than do a similar majority of power boat drivers. Dont even mention wet bikes.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Thanks everyone, all good points with plenty to consider.....At the end of the day we're sailing a slow, old, heavy Gaff which is only happy pointing in a straight line.
She tacks ok with a backed jib but its the getting going again which is the tricky bit so ferocious tacking back and forth in a narrow water way is not an option.. we just point, take a careful look at whats in the middle distance, go and pay strict attention to the rules, only this time I admit to being slightly overwhelmed and should have indicated my intentions and got on with it.
Regarding the shouting question. At my local club where incidentally I'm not a part of the racing lot. On any given race day the wailing cries of ..."Starboard"! can be heard for miles, up and down channel...haha.

If your boat is so cumbersome under sail, have you considered starting your engine in areas of restricted space for navigation? We do, in a light trimaran. One puff of wind at the wrong time could have serious consequences, we do not allow that to happen. It seems to me the seamanlike thing to do.

 

[SaltIre]

If your boat is so cumbersome under sail, have you considered starting your engine in areas of restricted space for navigation? We do, in a light trimaran. One puff of wind at the wrong time could have serious consequences, we do not allow that to happen. It seems to me the seamanlike thing to do.

They had their motor running.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

They had their motor running.

Why all the fuss then, his only right is being constrained by draught. And pitching yourself into a situation you should have foreseen doesn’t really cut the mustard

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Why all the fuss then, his only right is being constrained by draught. And pitching yourself into a situation you should have foreseen doesn’t really cut the mustard

he has rights if he is being overtaken.

 

[winch2]

And pitching yourself into a situation you should have foreseen doesn’t really cut the mustard

Oh come come.. "cut the mustard"? Its a bit of gentle sailing not brain surgery. Yes I should have been more assertive, but the tone here is that the racing lot have first dibs at any piece of water, well in my book, no they flippin dont.. I have first dibs within the constraints of Colregs at any piece of water of my choosing in front of me and to launch a huge race at low tide in a narrow channel?

 

[ylop]

Oh come come.. "cut the mustard"? Its a bit of gentle sailing not brain surgery. Yes I should have been more assertive, but the tone here is that the racing lot have first dibs at any piece of water, well in my book, no they flippin dont.. I have first dibs within the constraints of Colregs at any piece of water of my choosing in front of me and to launch a huge race at low tide in a narrow channel?

Were you an only child? Its over a week later and you are still stressing about who has "dibs" on a bit of water... do you think the dinghy sailor lost any sleep over it and is fretting about who's right it is? Do you get wound up like this in the car when someone doesn't give you as much space as you would like? If you must hoot the horn, perhaps make a hand gesture or vocalise your frustration - but move on. If you consistently notice white vans drive badly you can chose to enforce your rights and increase your blood pressure at the risk they might not give in or see a white van and anticipate the driver is "one of them" and adjust your own driving marginally. Same applies here.

 

[winch2]

Were you an only child? Its over a week later and you are still stressing about who has "dibs" on a bit of water... do you think the dinghy sailor lost any sleep over it and is fretting about who's right it is? Do you get wound up like this in the car when someone doesn't give you as much space as you would like? If you must hoot the horn, perhaps make a hand gesture or vocalise your frustration - but move on. If you consistently notice white vans drive badly you can chose to enforce your rights and increase your blood pressure at the risk they might not give in or see a white van and anticipate the driver is "one of them" and adjust your own driving marginally. Same applies here.

Haha I knew it, I knew eventually someone would crack and descend into personal mud slinging. Well done old fruit you've got the gold star. As my old dad used to say 'tis a brave man who goes up against the racing lot'. Well that was then and this is now.
Sorry this has got you in a tis as there really is no need, its a discussion and sometimes in discussion passions are roused, its par the course. Maybe you would like all threads to be pulled after a pre-determined number of posts, especially after someone else starts to espouse an idea that doesn't suit your narrative. Give it a try, Im sure the Mods are open to ideas.

 

[oldbloke]

I can understand why Mr(s) Winch felt harassed and oppressed in their original post. Wethef they were in the "right" or the "wrong " is still not entirely clear. However I do think that beating through the Chichester entrance, against the tide, on a summer's Sunday is a bit like driving round the M25 at 5pm and complaining about the traffic.

 

[ylop]

Haha I knew it, I knew eventually someone would crack and descend into personal mud slinging. Well done old fruit you've got the gold star. As my old dad used to say 'tis a brave man who goes up against the racing lot'. Well that was then and this is now.
Sorry this has got you in a tis as there really is no need, its a discussion and sometimes in discussion passions are roused, its par the course. Maybe you would like all threads to be pulled after a pre-determined number of posts, especially after someone else starts to espouse an idea that doesn't suit your narrative. Give it a try, Im sure the Mods are open to ideas.

Ah so you are just posting to try and get a reaction from others, so you are a classic
BTW I've not been in a tis about your crisis of confidence, but perhaps your dad has some wisdom worth learning from.

 

[benjenbav]

I occasionally have sailed relatively lumbering cruisers in the vicinity of dinghy racing. In such circumstances it’s often the case that one wants to keep out of the way but it isn’t always clear how best to achieve it without sprouting wings.

I think the OP describes a situation where on their windward quarter there were 20-odd dinghies.

Given that the latter are described as dripping with carbon it’s fair to assume they were quite a bit quicker than a crabber with or without a mighty 5hp outboard.

So, if the OP looked astern when the dinghies were a couple of cables away they might have felt a tack then would simply put the crabber in the midst of the fleet. Holding course the fleet inevitably came up and created just that situation.

Leaving the OP feeling they’d actually tried to let the dinghies get on with it and had somehow ended up embroiled.

If the location was, as suggested, the entrance to Chichester harbour perhaps the best solution would have been to develop a thick skin whilst observing the rules and raise a mug of tea to salute the racers.

 

[ylop]

I think the OP describes a situation where on their windward quarter there were 20-odd dinghies.

That's not what he said in his OP. He said there was a busy race on but a couple of stragglers were behind him.

Given that the latter are described as dripping with carbon it’s fair to assume they were quite a bit quicker than a crabber with or without a mighty 5hp outboard.

Depends on the wind and competence of the crews. If they had been leading the pack your assumption might be better than those left behind. Certainly the OP says after he bore away they "turned to port and shot off" which suggest previously they were not "at full speed".

the crabber in the midst of the fleet. Holding course the fleet inevitably came up and created just that situation.

But the "fleet" were ahead at the start of the story. ("The pack were well on their way").

 

[Never Grumble]

I do think that beating through the Chichester entrance, against the tide, on a summer's Sunday is a bit like driving round the M25 at 5pm and complaining about the traffic.

Coming back into Chichester Harbour in our yacht on a Sunday used to feel me with dread we used to make slow progress until a gap opened at which time the throttle was pushed firmly forward. We moved.

 

[benjenbav]

That's not what he said in his OP. He said there was a busy race on but a couple of stragglers were behind him.

Depends on the wind and competence of the crews. If they had been leading the pack your assumption might be better than those left behind. Certainly the OP says after he bore away they "turned to port and shot off" which suggest previously they were not "at full speed".

But the "fleet" were ahead at the start of the story. ("The pack were well on their way").

You’re right! I missed the bit about it being stragglers. In which case…

They were probably in a bad mood anyway and the presence of the OP supplied an excuse for the woulda, coulda, shoulda brigade.

Back in the clubhouse: “ah yes, we were right in contention until that tan-sailed gaffer got in the way.”

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Coming back into Chichester Harbour in our yacht on a Sunday used to feel me with dread we used to make slow progress until a gap opened at which time the throttle was pushed firmly forward. We moved.

That's the kind of plan I proposed, really. Choose your moment, do your best, it'll be alright on the night. We used to moor at Menghen Rythe, I know the problem very well. We never had a stick from the racing fleets, they know perfectly well they are racing in the fairway, and there's only a certain amount cruisers can do. Stay away from the turning marks, try to be predictable. They will steer around you.

 

[Puffin10032]

You’re right! I missed the bit about it being stragglers. In which case…

They were probably in a bad mood anyway and the presence of the OP supplied an excuse for the woulda, coulda, shoulda brigade.

Back in the clubhouse: “ah yes, we were right in contention until that tan-sailed gaffer got in the way.”

They don't lay course which go though the harbour mouth. The race course would have been out on the Solent so the dinghies would be sailing out to the start area and wouldn't even be racing at that point. My guess is that they tacked onto port thinking they'd just follow the Crabber out but being completely unaware of how slowly the Crabber was actually going. Before they knew it they were on top of the Crabber but being pulled down towards him by his dirty wind and unable to tack off for fear of running aground. Their mistake yes but nothing more.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

They don't lay course which go though the harbour mouth. The race course would have been out on the Solent so the dinghies would be sailing out to the start area and wouldn't even be racing at that point. My guess is that they tacked onto port thinking they'd just follow the Crabber out but being completely unaware of how slowly the Crabber was actually going. Before they knew it they were on top of the Crabber but being pulled down towards him by his dirty wind and unable to tack off for fear of running aground. Their mistake yes but nothing more.

There are a couple of marks in the harbour mouth/fairway, and I’ve been sent round them several times. But not, I think, for dinghys with a lot of carbon on show. But then those dinghys would just sail over or through a crabber barely noticing it. Whatever the OPs situation was, it seems to me that we don’t really know, apart from that he was motoring into the harbour and somehow got tangled with a bunch of high performance small boats. If by leaving his sails up he’d restricted his options, it’s his fault. And crabbers draw almost no water. 49ers and similar draw1.5m plus when sailing. We used to use the shallow water to stay clear of them. Admittedly itks sometimes bumpy there, but crabbers are proper sea boats are they not? Nothing to be concerned about if my lightweight tri can cope with it.

 

[Puffin10032]

There are a couple of marks in the harbour mouth/fairway, and I’ve been sent round them several times. But not, I think, for dinghys with a lot of carbon on show. But then those dinghys would just sail over or through a crabber barely noticing it. Whatever the OPs situation was, it seems to me that we don’t really know, apart from that he was motoring into the harbour and somehow got tangled with a bunch of high performance small boats. If by leaving his sails up he’d restricted his options, it’s his fault. And crabbers draw almost no water. 49ers and similar draw1.5m plus when sailing. We used to use the shallow water to stay clear of them. Admittedly itks sometimes bumpy there, but crabbers are proper sea boats are they not? Nothing to be concerned about if my lightweight tri can cope with it.

Carbon spars on dinghies aren't actually that exotic any more. Quite a few mid-range dinghies sport them. Assuming that the dinghies launched from Hayling Island SC, they were hosting the RS700 and RS800 Nationals, the Sunday being the last day, and also had their club racing. High tide was 10 AM and the races were scheduled to start at 11 AM. A 700 or 800 should, as you correctly say, blast past a Crabber with ease but something like an RS Aero (roughly Laser speed) might find it a lot harder especially as the Crabber had help from it's outboard.

 

[SaltIre]

Deleted.