penberth3
Well-known member
Yes, ISTR the thread was locked from charges to the end of the court case.
Girl, 15, dies in Southampton boat crash
- Thread starter KompetentKrew
- Start date
Yes, ISTR the thread was locked from charges to the end of the court case.
Greenheart
Well-known member
Tragic. ?
I know Netley. There certainly is a lot of open water there, and very few marks to avoid. It's possible to misjudge the tide though.
I've never understood why anybody would want a RIB ride, but it never crossed my mind that it's potentially dangerous too.
Don't the bigger RIBs have lap-belts for rough water? I don't think rollercoasters let you ride with the instruction 'hold on tight'.
Not that I ever envied anyone on a rollercoaster, either.
.
I know Netley. There certainly is a lot of open water there, and very few marks to avoid. It's possible to misjudge the tide though.
I've never understood why anybody would want a RIB ride, but it never crossed my mind that it's potentially dangerous too.
Don't the bigger RIBs have lap-belts for rough water? I don't think rollercoasters let you ride with the instruction 'hold on tight'.
Not that I ever envied anyone on a rollercoaster, either.
.
Kelpie
Well-known member
I've never seen a RIB with lap belts.
And you'd be deluding yourself if you think that everybody uses a kill cord.
And you'd be deluding yourself if you think that everybody uses a kill cord.
Greenheart
Well-known member
So...open boats with supercar horsepower, that anyone can drive...kill-cords which may or may not be worn...
...and no restraints to keep kids (and anyone else) safely in their seats, even if it's sure to be rough?
I really can't believe that - are you certain, Kelpie? It's insane! One for Ralph Nader. ?
One such incident is too many, but this isn't the first.
EDIT...are RIBs just as stable when they're inverted? That'd be a good reason not to wear a lap-belt.
...and no restraints to keep kids (and anyone else) safely in their seats, even if it's sure to be rough?
I really can't believe that - are you certain, Kelpie? It's insane! One for Ralph Nader. ?
One such incident is too many, but this isn't the first.
EDIT...are RIBs just as stable when they're inverted? That'd be a good reason not to wear a lap-belt.
Last edited:
CLB
Well-known member
Ribs are quite stable when upside down. A belt would be a bigger danger than not being restrained.
prv
Well-known member
Don't mix up the events in this thread, with a coded boat and commercially qualified skipper, with the situation that pertains to leisure use.
Either way, don't lose sight of the fact that boat accidents are news precisely because they're rare. Nobody's starting a five-page thread over each of the 150 road deaths that happen month in, month out.
Seatbelts aren't used on open boats because the thinking is that if it flips you're safer being thrown clear. Enclosed racing boats do have seatbelts, and emergency breathing sets to use while unbuckling and opening the hatch.
Pete
Greenheart
Well-known member
That point is well taken, indeed it occurred to me before anybody responded, thanks Pete.
Do we know if the casualty in this instance was wearing a lifejacket? If it is assumed to be safer to fall overboard in extremis than to stay aboard, surely it is basic essential anticipation to require LJs to be worn?
PilotWolf
Well-known member
Another random question.
Are these skipper required to hold a High Speed Craft endorsement? Or are they too small - ie limited by passenger numbers.
Here I believe it’s required for passenger vessels above 30 kts. Talking to a CG surveyor a couple of years back said that was why the company didn’t travel faster not because of fuel costs which was the official line.
The last rib I drove was 12 passenger seats 2 crew and 600hp.
W.
Are these skipper required to hold a High Speed Craft endorsement? Or are they too small - ie limited by passenger numbers.
Here I believe it’s required for passenger vessels above 30 kts. Talking to a CG surveyor a couple of years back said that was why the company didn’t travel faster not because of fuel costs which was the official line.
The last rib I drove was 12 passenger seats 2 crew and 600hp.
W.
Kelpie
Well-known member
I've never heard of a high speed endorsement, and I was employed to drive a RIB with 700hp that could hit 50kt.
AFAIK endorsements are more of an add on for a Boatmaster license, rather than anything to do with RYA qualifications.
AFAIK endorsements are more of an add on for a Boatmaster license, rather than anything to do with RYA qualifications.
PilotWolf
Well-known member
I think it’s more for larger passenger transportation - maybe Red Jet or similar?
Maybe it’s just a US thing.
W.
PilotWolf
Well-known member
Special training for ratings and officers
I have limited internet so can’t get the full file but I think this is it.
W
I have limited internet so can’t get the full file but I think this is it.
W
Kelpie
Well-known member
I don't think any of that would apply. Small commercial vessels (up to 12 passengers) come under a Code of Practice managed by the RYA, rather than the MCA.
PilotWolf
Well-known member
As I said it’s been a longtime but I thought the RYA acted for the MCA I these circumstance?
Just curiousness that’s all.
W
PilotWolf
Well-known member
As I said it’s been a longtime but I thought the RYA acted for the MCA I these circumstance?
Just curiousness that’s all.
W
Kelpie
Well-known member
The RYA has taken on the small craft qualifications, covering vessels that are less than 24m long, 200t displacement, and up to 12 passengers. This includes Powerboat 2, Advanced Powerboat, and Yachtmaster Power.
If your commercial boat exceeds any of these limits it, and its crew, will fall under the remit of the MCA's qualifications, and you will need a Boatmaster Licence or a Master's ticket.
For the purposes of this thread, I will reiterate that it is perfectly possible, legal, and indeed commonplace for a person to do a two day PB2 course* and then start taking paying passengers out in a fast boat.
* you will also need to complete VHF, Sea Survival, PPR, and First Aid, but these don't teach you how to drive a boat.
Giblets
Well-known member
Do they not also need a Commercial Endorsement and completed Medical Fitness Form?
mm42
Active member
I would disagree strongly that it’s common for commercial rib drivers on fast trips to be running on a commercially endorsed PB2. Possible and legal undoubtedly but commonplace definitely not.
Speaking as a commercially endorsed Yachtmaster power, with PB Advanced and a career driving 40+ knot ribs, mainly at night and often in unpleasant conditions I can safely say I know of very few commercial outfits running on PB2s. Commercially endorsed advanced is usually the minimum, for those of you not aware that means a minimum of 20 days, 2 days as skipper, 400 miles, 12 night hours, the completion of the Powerboat Advanced course (minima are much greater if not, 800 miles 30 days etc). Theory to the level of Yachtmaster Theory, VHF Short Range Certificate or higher, approved first aid ticket, Sea Survival (either RYA or STCW) and the online Professional Practices and Responsibilities course, plus either an ML5, or more usually required by employers the ENG1 Seafarers medical. It’s not a particularly quick or or cheap route, and still limits you to 20 miles from safe haven.
PB2 limits you to 3 miles, which in a fast thrill boat doing 30 knots means a mere 6 minutes, which doesn’t leave a lot of scope for you to use that ticket.
Kelpie
Well-known member
Yes I forgot about the medical and the commercial endorsement. Same point appiles that these don't make you a better or safer body operator in themselves.
Kelpie
Well-known member
That is reassuring and I'm glad to hear it.
There is a huge difference in the standard required to pass PB2 and Advanced PB.
Capt Popeye
Well-known member
Yea well the wearing of Seat Belts or Strapped on to boat, I understand that a Disbility Sailing Organisation on the Dart had an incident some years ago, only hearsay, where a Diasbled fella died when the Dinghy capsized and the fella was trapped into /onto the dinghy, the Qualified Crew could not free him soon enough; so guess that to be resrained in any way is a certain NO NO No best to float free surely; my disagreement with these RIB thrill rides is that it can often be seen as just that, a THRILL RIDE, so the wetter and more thrown around one is the better, so much for thrill boating; guess that any Driver should moderate the Speed being driven to that thats considered to be SAFE, and NO MORE , sighting items like Buoys can be difficult at times, as especially the Colours Chosen do NOT stand out on a rough seaway at all, in factthey are well camaflaged .
Perhaps a bit of excess that went seriously wrong on the day, we shall eventually see ?
Travelling aboard a Fast Rib is as about the very worst designed craft there is for safety of passengers, sitting up high with very little grab rails or handholds, a hull thats at best Skittish and an Outboard thats oh so powerfull, with passengers that most probably are not used to Boating of any kind whatsoever = a probable accident just waiting to happen
Condolences to the family of the bereaved young girl
