Girl, 15, dies in Southampton boat crash

[penberth3]

That is not in the gift of the court. The MCA or RYA can withdraw any certification which would achieve that outcome. Personally, if I had been the master I would be so devastated I would find it difficulty to step on a vessel again.

Interesting. For anyone who's read the small print, what's the procedure on withdrawing qualifications? Does a certificate holder have an obligation to report criminal convictions himself? Can a third party report disciplinary matters to the MCA or RYA?

 

[Sandy]

Interesting. For anyone who's read the small print, what's the procedure on withdrawing qualifications? Does a certificate holder have an obligation to report criminal convictions himself? Can a third party report disciplinary matters to the MCA or RYA?

I have no idea what the process is, MAIB will have done a report so the MCA will be all over it like a rash.

The chap who skippered that trip to the London Boat Show who got caught up in that storm a few years back, no loss of live but several bucketfuls of vomit, was required to re-sit his YM.

 

[Adios]

The chap who skippered that trip to the London Boat Show who got caught up in that storm a few years back, no loss of live but several bucketfuls of vomit, was required to re-sit his YM.

sounds like a fun read but i can't find the story on that, any links?

 

[Sandy]

sounds like a fun read but i can't find the story on that, any links?

Google is your friend

Hot Liquid skipper loses his Yachtmaster - Practical Boat Owner

 

[DownWest]

Humm , well , I viewed a Video programme of the events leading up to the Trial of Ben S ; In the prog it was clearly stated that the River Police were not aware of the Girl being in the Speedboat , when they attended the call to the crash ; so as I formed an opinion that BS had not declared her being in the River , so guess that the Police did not look for her to give Aid or recover her : if correct guess that unforgivable ; TGHe Video states that Land Police discovered that there were 2 persons in the Boat following inquirees of local residents ; So was it ever established that She was in fact driving the boat ?

I too find that unforgivable and his statement that she was driving at the time extremely doubtfull, given his behavior.

 

[ean_p]

I too find that unforgivable and his statement that she was driving at the time extremely doubtfull, given his behavior.

You should perhaps give a little more credence to the facts as established and accepted in the trial and as below carried forward into the appeal also;

At some time after 10.20 pm, they set off, it appearing to be the case that they took more alcohol with them. The appellant was driving. It was not in issue that on the outward leg of the journey the boat was travelling at excessive speed. At some point on the return journey, the appellant allowed Ms Brown to take the wheel and take control. CCTV images showed the boat move in a gradual line from the north to south side of the river: it seemed to slow significantly. As it approached Plantation Wharf, witnesses describe the boat making a chugging sound, with reducing engine revolutions; that was not consistent with a vessel travelling at or above the permitted speed limit.
7. Having impacted with the tree, the boat turned over throwing both the appellant and Ms Brown into the water; neither was wearing a buoyancy aid or life jacket. Tragically, Ms Brown was unresponsive when she was pulled from the water and subsequently died in hospital. Meanwhile, the appellant was rescued by the RNLI and handed over to a Marine Police Unit. He was suffering from hypothermia and appeared very concerned as to Ms Brown’s welfare and whereabouts: he spoke to an officer, Con Winter, who described him as “clearly very drunk” as well as seemingly “extremely confused” and “clearly suffering from shock”. While in the hospital, he answered a number of questions posed by Con Winter about the circumstances of the incident.

paragraphs 6 & 7
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Shepherd-Jack-FINAL-JUDGMENT.pdf

 

[DownWest]

You should perhaps give a little more credence to the facts as established and accepted in the trial and as below carried forward into the appeal also;

At some time after 10.20 pm, they set off, it appearing to be the case that they took more alcohol with them. The appellant was driving. It was not in issue that on the outward leg of the journey the boat was travelling at excessive speed. At some point on the return journey, the appellant allowed Ms Brown to take the wheel and take control. CCTV images showed the boat move in a gradual line from the north to south side of the river: it seemed to slow significantly. As it approached Plantation Wharf, witnesses describe the boat making a chugging sound, with reducing engine revolutions; that was not consistent with a vessel travelling at or above the permitted speed limit.
7. Having impacted with the tree, the boat turned over throwing both the appellant and Ms Brown into the water; neither was wearing a buoyancy aid or life jacket. Tragically, Ms Brown was unresponsive when she was pulled from the water and subsequently died in hospital. Meanwhile, the appellant was rescued by the RNLI and handed over to a Marine Police Unit. He was suffering from hypothermia and appeared very concerned as to Ms Brown’s welfare and whereabouts: he spoke to an officer, Con Winter, who described him as “clearly very drunk” as well as seemingly “extremely confused” and “clearly suffering from shock”. While in the hospital, he answered a number of questions posed by Con Winter about the circumstances of the incident.

paragraphs 6 & 7
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Shepherd-Jack-FINAL-JUDGMENT.pdf

OK, I hadn't seen that . But, would not one's first reaction be, How is she?

 

[Adios]

Google is your friend

I forgive google for not making much of "The chap who skippered that trip to the London Boat Show who got caught up in that storm a few years back"

I notice the MCA couldn't convince a jury of any skipperly wrong doing and ended up paying the costs. Hot Liquid duo found not guilty - Practical Boat Owner One charge being "failing to check the forecast" dismissed, maybe its ok to go out with an 11 forecast as long as you know about it?

 

[Capt Popeye]

You should perhaps give a little more credence to the facts as established and accepted in the trial and as below carried forward into the appeal also;

At some time after 10.20 pm, they set off, it appearing to be the case that they took more alcohol with them. The appellant was driving. It was not in issue that on the outward leg of the journey the boat was travelling at excessive speed. At some point on the return journey, the appellant allowed Ms Brown to take the wheel and take control. CCTV images showed the boat move in a gradual line from the north to south side of the river: it seemed to slow significantly. As it approached Plantation Wharf, witnesses describe the boat making a chugging sound, with reducing engine revolutions; that was not consistent with a vessel travelling at or above the permitted speed limit.
7. Having impacted with the tree, the boat turned over throwing both the appellant and Ms Brown into the water; neither was wearing a buoyancy aid or life jacket. Tragically, Ms Brown was unresponsive when she was pulled from the water and subsequently died in hospital. Meanwhile, the appellant was rescued by the RNLI and handed over to a Marine Police Unit. He was suffering from hypothermia and appeared very concerned as to Ms Brown’s welfare and whereabouts: he spoke to an officer, Con Winter, who described him as “clearly very drunk” as well as seemingly “extremely confused” and “clearly suffering from shock”. While in the hospital, he answered a number of questions posed by Con Winter about the circumstances of the incident.

paragraphs 6 & 7
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Shepherd-Jack-FINAL-JUDGMENT.pdf

Well having read the account posted above , it just appears to me to be another Failing by the Police Service in mounting and conducting this investigation ; thats if I understood it properly ?

Seems as if the Interviews and statements were conducted by standard Met Land Police and not the River Police ; as a result the Speed limits , drinking , navigation rules and bylaws were not understood , or understood enough , allowing for faults and inamissable evidence etc , thats just disasterous Police Work , surely ?

Again to me this case just has a big smell about it , the Police being outsmarted and out thought by others involved ;

I do recall that in thefactual TV programmes the Deceased Girls Father had to make the authorities take the necessary actions , and so eventually the case came to Court , but as can be read in the post above , it was a hotch potch investigation , so the account posted above seems to be the best that the Authorities could gather together , maybe ?

 

[[165042]]

Absolute farce:

Emily Lewis: Speedboat skipper sentenced after teenager's death in crash

 

[Bouba]

Absolute farce:

Emily Lewis: Speedboat skipper sentenced after teenager's death in crash

I think it probably is reasonably fair...ish. The family got the guilty verdict they wanted.....and the speedboat owner and operator, who probably thought they didn’t deserve to be found guilty, don’t have to do time. A sort of judgement of Solomon

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I think it probably is reasonably fair...ish. The family got the guilty verdict they wanted.....and the speedboat owner and operator, who probably thought they didn’t deserve to be found guilty, don’t have to do time. A sort of judgement of Solomon

The next item on my car radio was about a driver who’d killed his girlfriend in a car crash. He got 9 years on the same verdict.

 

[ylop]

The next item on my car radio was about a driver who’d killed his girlfriend in a car crash. He got 9 years on the same verdict.

No he didn't. He got 9 years for a different offence (I haven't seen the details but I'm guessing 9 yrs for killing your g/f involved either a really poor criminal history or some obvious stupidity factor).

EDIT - I think I've found the case you were referring to: 1. He was convicted of three charges. 2. He had intentionally modified the car to make it better at drifting. 3. He was racing on the public roads (and driving too fast, too close, in poor weather!). The judge described it as having "deliberately sabotaged the inbuilt safety features". He had told others about the modifications in the past and so the judge said it was not "a momentary bad decision". Its not to condone the incident in the solent, but given the Jury found the accused not guilty of manslaughter I think its about as far from similar culpability as you can get.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

No he didn't. He got 9 years for a different offence (I haven't seen the details but I'm guessing 9 yrs for killing your g/f involved either a really poor criminal history or some obvious stupidity factor).

Manslaughter by careless driving. Admittedly you cannot do careless driving in a RIB technically. But still.

 

[Dukester52]

He was cleared of manslaughter. But found guilty of 'failing to maintain a proper lookout and a safe speed'.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

He was cleared of manslaughter. But found guilty of 'failing to maintain a proper lookout and a safe speed'.

Clearly I should pay closer attention to the news. I do pay attention when driving my RIB at speed.

 

[penberth3]

I think it probably is reasonably fair...ish. The family got the guilty verdict they wanted.....and the speedboat owner and operator, who probably thought they didn’t deserve to be found guilty, don’t have to do time. A sort of judgement of Solomon

The best outcome would be banning these high speed "joy rides" before anyone else gets killed.

 

[Iliade]

High speed joy rides have been about since high speed boats arose. Not looking where you are going and ploughing into something immovable, resulting in multiple deaths, is not the sole preserve of high speed craft. Who can honestly say they have never been momentarily distracted while travelling at 30mph or more? No parent that I'm aware of...

Yes they messed up, but the outcome was about the worst possible. The offence was probably one of momentary omission (I'm not privy to the full evidence.) Maybe the cox'n had a face-full of water after crossing the ferry's wake and just didn't see the buoy? I'm sure their punishment is fair, perhaps even overly stringent.

 

[DownWest]

'Joy rides' have a bit of a problem. Give the punters a big thrill, but don't risk them. Several cases in the noos recently. Woman loses an arm after the buggy rolls over in Mexico.
Kid, very obese, falls off a high thrill ride at hight and dies. Likely the staff should have refused him, but didn't.
Then, we see in ads, happy people riding dune buggys leaping off sand dunes. That didn't end well for at least one case.

 

[Bouba]

You don’t have to be going fast to be in danger
Thirty people jump into Thames after Duck Boat sets on fire
At the end of the day, all forms of transport are dangerous and always have been...but we elect to use them...either from necessity or amusement