Girl, 15, dies in Southampton boat crash

[Stemar]

All he had to do was look where he was bloody going. I would speculate that he was paying more attention to the ferry to get back in the wake ASAP, and not looking where he was going. I think I'll go with ean_p's analysis.

Having said that, it's easily done. I recall a time when I was distracted by a rather nice halter top and tiny hot pants and, Bugger - who put that car there? Fortunately, only minor damage to my car and none to the other, but it could so easily have been a child.

 

[DownWest]

Not just this accident, but the whole 'thrill package' events industry. Adventure parks in general, all looking to give a bigger thrill, but with clients expecting to have no exposure to injury. They buy the ride, with no real understanding of what could go wrong, as they assume that such stuff is well controlled. It might be, but not always.

 

[DownWest]

Having said that, it's easily done. I recall a time when I was distracted by a rather nice halter top and tiny hot pants and, Bugger - who put that car there? Fortunately, only minor damage to my car and none to the other, but it could so easily have been a child.

A long time ago in Watton, Norfolk.. Biker type in a Ford Zodiac, looking at a young lady in a VERY short skirt, shouts 'Get a look at that, makes me hard' Well , while he was 'distracted' the car in front stopped and he rammed it. The whole street burst out laughing.

 

[onesea]

A long time ago in Watton, Norfolk.. Biker type in a Ford Zodiac, looking at a young lady in a VERY short skirt, shouts 'Get a look at that, makes me hard' Well , while he was 'distracted' the car in front stopped and he rammed it. The whole street burst out laughing.

I can recall a lake I used to teach on where blokes where banned from rescue boat driving. The local females would in summer come to the lake to sunbathe, in the most revealing outfits. Apparently rescue boats had found them self on the banks a couple of times due to distraction. This worked well till a female driver had the same problem.

Back to the sad side of this sort of event, it’s very easy to get distracted disoriented even with experience. I can see how a copilot/ lookout to keep an eye on passengers and a situational overview could reduce risk.

 

[38mess]

You can pass a Pb2 course, get it commercially endorsed and without any experience drive one of these 600 hp ribs at sea for upto 3 miles with 12 fare paying passengers.

 

[Bouba]

You can pass a Pb2 course, get it commercially endorsed and without any experience drive one of these 600 hp ribs at sea for upto 3 miles with 12 fare paying passengers.

Nobody asks the bus driver or airline pilot if it’s their first day on job.
Whatever our profession, people rely on us (sometimes with their lives)…but we can only get qualified and trained…experience comes from doing the job

 

[Stemar]

Nobody asks the bus driver or airline pilot if it’s their first day on job.
Whatever our profession, people rely on us (sometimes with their lives)…but we can only get qualified and trained…experience comes from doing the job

No, but both bus and plane drivers spend a good many hours driving the same vehicle before they're let loose on us. My PB2 was an afternoon in a small rib, never going over a dozen knots, which was fine to drive the club safety boat - it did include recovering people from the water and righting dinghies - but only my natural cowardice good sense would have kept me from being a lethal weapon wit 300HP behind me

 

[Halo]

“If you want to love your life you have to flirt with death “.
Ralph McTell - Around the Wild Cape Horn

Let’s not ban anything but try to manage risk.

 

[finestgreen]

You can pass a Pb2 course, get it commercially endorsed and without any experience drive one of these 600 hp ribs at sea for upto 3 miles with 12 fare paying passengers.

The skipper in this case had all the qualifications and experience you could possibly wish for, though

 

[Bouba]

“If you want to love your life you have to flirt with death “.
Ralph McTell - Around the Wild Cape Horn

Let’s not ban anything but try to manage risk.

Managing risk implies the occasional accident…there are thrill seeking rib rides all over the world…why are we worked up on this particular tragedy…the implication is we want zero accidents…meaning zero risk

 

[38mess]

The skipper in this case had all the qualifications and experience you could possibly wish for, though

I never said he didn't.... Which sometimes makes it worse, complacency creeps in. Not implying it in this case of course.

 

[finestgreen]

Managing risk implies the occasional accident…there are thrill seeking rib rides all over the world…why are we worked up on this particular tragedy…the implication is we want zero accidents…meaning zero risk

Managing risk implies making it as safe as reasonably practicable. This wasn't.

 

[Juan Twothree]

Managing risk implies making it as safe as reasonably practicable. This wasn't.

Sometimes the biggest risk doesn't arise from lack of knowledge or experience, it comes from having so much knowledge and experience that you relax, and take your eye off the ball.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Managing risk implies making it as safe as reasonably practicable. This wasn't.

Managing risk to as low (not safe) as reasonably practical does not mean zero risk, so Bouba is correct in his comments. If the operator had implemented a good risk management plan then an incident would likely have a consequence much less severe.

The MAIB report states that their management system was pretty shit when it came to risk management.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

Sometimes the biggest risk doesn't arise from lack of knowledge or experience, it comes from having so much knowledge and experience that you relax, and take your eye off the ball.

I do not think that is so significant. Complacency is a threat that needs to be managed for sure, but a lot of professionals think they know more than they actually do which has resulted in some horrific incidents. Especially when there are changes to routine operations that escalates the risk and this is not identified by the persons who should have the knowledge.

 

[Bouba]

How many of us tune out when we drive…even if we drive professionally for a living…you are driving down the road and suddenly think ‘how did I get here?’…it’s because we are human, we lose concentration, lose perspective, lose focus…luckily for most of us the car knows the way home

 

[RunAgroundHard]

How many of us tune out when we drive…even if we drive professionally for a living…you are driving down the road and suddenly think ‘how did I get here?’…it’s because we are human, we lose concentration, lose perspective, lose focus…luckily for most of us the car knows the way home

Managing fatigue is a significant element in safety management for mariners and for professional drivers.

 

[Stemar]

Very little in life is risk free - shit happens, no matter how hard we try to prevent it. Going to sea implies a risk of drowning but, when I lived in London, I reckoned that the most dangerous part of my journey was getting round the M25, and I suspect that it's the same calculation for this trip. FFS don't ban such things because, exceptionally, something went wrong, or you'll end up banning everything and we'll all die of boredom instead. We already have far too much Something Must Be Done legislation and, off hand, I can't think of any that didn't largely fail to accomplish the object, but had unintended consequences.

It's about managing risk, and taking sensible precautions. You can't legislate against stupidity or distraction, but you can look at the design of the boats and how to reduce the likelihood of injury or death when it does all hit the fan.

 

[doug748]

More vague, beige, Health and Safety recommendations and additions to a code of practice that was ignored by the company in question.

3 years apiece for the central characters would probably do a lot more to concentrate minds.

.

 

[ylop]

You can pass a Pb2 course, get it commercially endorsed and without any experience drive one of these 600 hp ribs at sea for upto 3 miles with 12 fare paying passengers.

No, but both bus and plane drivers spend a good many hours driving the same vehicle before they're let loose on us. My PB2 was an afternoon in a small rib, never going over a dozen knots, which was fine to drive the club safety boat - it did include recovering people from the water and righting dinghies - but only my natural cowardice good sense would have kept me from being a lethal weapon wit 300HP behind me

1. a PB2 course is not an afternoon. It’s two days. To get it Commercially Endorsed you’ll need to do PPR course, first aid, sea survival and VHF course too - so 6 days minimum to get the minimum entry level.

2. Not many pb2 courses don’t go above 12 knots - I would be surprised if a boat that didn’t exceed 12 knots meets the RYA requirements for the planing craft endorsement. Probably best not to judge the competence of commercial skippers based on the shimmy shortcuts taken by some sailing clubs (the Pb2 course isn’t really the right course for safety boat helms either - there’s another 2 days training on top of PB2 before you should be trusted with managing the safety of a fleet of dinghy sailors).

3. The MCA are quite clear that holding a certificate should not exclude vessel operators from assessing the competence of individuals for the vessel and waters they will be operating in. Again it’s the sort of thing you’d expect insurers to be asking about too.

4. Word is that getting work with little experience and just a commercially endorse PB2 is not particularly easy - probably get some civil construction jobs around bridges etc, but if you want to drive big fast ribs then usually they are coded for use beyond 3 miles from a NDP so need more bits of paper.