Getting round Spain

[chinita]

Met a Dutch couple in Chipiona who had been caught after 7 years in the same place. They were asked to provide an estimated value for the boat which was fairly old and the tax wasn't too painfull. No check was made to verify their valuation.

Well, IMO, if they chose to test the system to that degree they deserve to be caught.

However, as I understood it when I was in Spain, the acquisition of a Residencia (which you are obliged to do after 183 days) requires a permanent address on land. A marina address is not acceptable to Spanish Authorities.

I wonder how they could be forced to pay any tax in those circumstances.

 

[JamesFrance]

Then of course there would be the small matter of income tax and any other taxes due from residents..............

 

[capnsensible]

Well, IMO, if they chose to test the system to that degree they deserve to be caught.

However, as I understood it when I was in Spain, the acquisition of a Residencia (which you are obliged to do after 183 days) requires a permanent address on land. A marina address is not acceptable to Spanish Authorities.

I wonder how they could be forced to pay any tax in those circumstances.

The Canaries write their own rules a bit there, we were ok residencia with a marina adress. Cheapo flights to the peninsular, too.

 

[jeanne]

Well, you may note that we have been living here in Sanlucar for the same amount of time. There has never been a problem in this area - indeed, the local Policia Maritima asked us to visit them to get our official permiso to moor in Spanish waters- how helpful was that! I suspect that the problem in the Med side marinas is the concentration of easy pickings. I know what the (ambiguous) laws say, but we have been lucky in this region. Perhaps being on a border helps.

 

[idpnd]

Considering the reach of this site, its impressive we haven't had a single direct report of someone getting pulled over and charged, with only Jim B deciding to get residencia?

 

[duncan99210]

I did say that it's not that much of a problem! Only a few unfortunates get caught in any one year and I've never met one - only stories of the 'did you hear about so and so' ilk. I suspect that you've got to work at upsetting someone before getting a visit and being invited to pay the tax!

 

[jimbaerselman]

Considering the reach of this site, its impressive we haven't had a single direct report of someone getting pulled over and charged, with only Jim B deciding to get residencia?

Over the last 4 years there have been 2 "I wuz robbed! How can they do this!" reports and threads on this forum from boat owners whose boats had been impounded pending payment of "matriculation tax" (now called a pollution tax). Each thread contained one or two "me too" comments, as well as several "yes, I know someone else who's been hit". In addition I've corresponded with 3 owners similarly charged with this tax. Yes, there may be overlap here, but I think it's pretty safe to assume that 2 or 3 boats a year are caught out (many boat owners in Spain do not read YBW forums, nor belong to the Cruising Association, which has published advice on this matter for many years).

All of these charges arose because the complainers had clearly become tax resident in Spain, but hadn't declared their boats had been imported. Some were owners of large motor vessels who lived year round in S Spain, and at least one was a live-aboard on a small vessel, eking out a pension. Most were not aware that spending more than 182 days a year in another country had any significance for their "means of transport", or that "means of transport" regulations included boats, as well as cars.

All could have avoided the tax if they had declared their boat and "tax residence" within 30 days of becoming tax resident, or if already tax resident, within 30 days of importing the boat.

Periods of residence by EU citizens in individual EU countries are not tracked. But if it appears that someone spends most of their time in a country, the authorities will assume tax residence unless you offer proof that this is not the case.

So it's your choice. If you're going to qualify as a tax resident and you keep a boat in that country, either declare it and avoid pollution tax. Or don't declare your tax residence and risk the tax. A percentage of those who "keep their heads down" are caught. We don't know the percentage, so we can't quantify the risk.

 

[chinita]

Considering the reach of this site, its impressive we haven't had a single direct report of someone getting pulled over and charged

I agree. After eleven years I have never met or even heard of anybody who does NOT have a property - and just spends their life afloat - being caught (or even challenged) over the 183 day rule.

A few years ago I challenged a forumite whose mission in life seemed to be creating doom and gloom amongst those attempting to lead a simple and uncomplicated life - to produce the name of a cruising boat and the port concerned (NOT a boat belonging to somebody who owned property in Spain but purely a liveaboard cruising boat) which had been caught overstepping the 183 day rule and been fined/sequestrated/ impounded/imprisoned or whatever the scaremongering punishment of the month was.

He could not.

 

[Slow_boat]

As I understand it, if you are paying tax in one EU country, you can't be taxed on that income again in another EU country.

My late father had no property outside Spain but had an very nice UK pension, on which he paid UK tax. He didn't notice he was also paying Spanish tax. We have been told that we may claim back either the Spanish or UK tax for the previous 3 years, which we are in the process of doing.

 

[lovezoo]

I don't think you can pick and choose which country you pay your tax in. You are supposed to pay it in the country you live in.

The thing is, if the authorities don't know you are there, they can't tax you and on that basis lots of Brits live here in Spain, renting apartments, working in bars without contracts and not paying any tax to anyone. They just look like anyone else here on holiday so get away with it, until of course they need medical treatment, at which point its back to blighty.