Getting round Spain

[LadyInBed]

From Paw-Paw's (michaelbriant's) site:
"If you are land based or living in your boat in Spain, for more than 180 days in any 12 month period, then the Spanish Authorities will consider you to be resident in Spain."

The Spanish coast, being so large, means that you could be in Spanish waters for a considerable time. If you are slowly transiting round the coast, taking in the sights and expect to take maybe two+ years to get to the Med.
Do you have to lay your boat up for 6 months and leave Spain, or if you don't lay your boat up for a full 6 months, are you subject to Spanish residency and Matriculation tax?
Is there another solution?

 

[skpt]

you're on a passage(albeit very slow) and not living in a static boat in a marina so law wouldn't apply. that's how i read it and i would have thought that would be the intention of the law but i'm probably wrong.

 

[concentrik]

I wonder who monitors your presence /progress and how?

 

[Downsman]

I wonder who monitors your presence /progress and how?

Most, maybe all the Spanish marinas I called into asked "Where from?" and "Next port" and the answers went down onto a form. The Civil Guard were regular visitors to Chipiona and Torrevieja I noticed when I spent a few days at each port. I don't think it would be too difficult for them to trace your voyage route and time in country if they really wanted to establish your length of time in Spanish waters..

 

[ripvan1]

without wishing to appear paranoid your passage is on a computer from your 1st landfall in spain/portugal and throughtout - it's why they ask the questions, try being economical with the truth and expect a visit from bill and ben.

 

[westernman]

In the Mediterranean the French track each and every boat and know pretty much everything about it. I doubt it is any different for other countries or coasts.

 

[chinita]

Most, maybe all the Spanish marinas I called into asked "Where from?" and "Next port" and the answers went down onto a form. The Civil Guard were regular visitors to Chipiona and Torrevieja I noticed when I spent a few days at each port. I don't think it would be too difficult for them to trace your voyage route and time in country if they really wanted to establish your length of time in Spanish waters..

Yes, I am sure they have nothing better to do.

I am equally sure that these ridiculous forms are despatched post haste to some Guardia Civil HQ to be downloaded into a massive database of all leisure yacht traffic transiting the Med.

I wonder why they have not picked up on my form where they asked 'method of propulsion?' answer 'Thermo Nuclear' and 'Fuel Type?' answer 'Liquid Hydrogen'.

It is a joke, and deserves to be treated as such.

All the marinas want is your money - cash preferably.

 

[jeanne]

Laws in Spain

Are not enforced. My boat was in Spain for seven years before I sold her, with no interest from the tax people. If you stay in one marina for several years, you may attract attention, otherwise don't worry.

 

[LadyInBed]

My boat was in Spain for seven years before I sold her, with no interest from the tax people.

According to the link I put above, it isn't the boat being in the country that is the issue but the person being there for >182 days that can cause the problem.

 

[Conachair]

I wonder who monitors your presence /progress and how?

They didn't catch me

 

[idpnd]

This applies for all European countries, although as you say the Spanish geography makes it hard to avoid overstaying your welcome on a leisurely cruise.

Thing is, in most countries they don't really care (or notice) as long as you're not earning income in the country - in Spain you get this luxury tax on the actual boat upon importation (if the person becomes tax resident in Spain), which gives them an additional incentive to work out how long you're been there. And apparently the burden of proof is on you.

I've read around on this a lot and apparently its 180 days per calendar year (as opposed to any 12 month period), which makes it possible to spend 1 year -2 days.. That should suffice..

 

[chinita]

They didn't catch me

Nor me, and I was schlepping about all over Spain for about eight years.

FWIIW I never came upon any other boat that had been 'caught'.

 

[Downsman]

If you stay in one marina for several years, you may attract attention, otherwise don't worry. (quote)

About sums it up, although I did know one Englishman who had to pay a considerable sum on a relatively small motor boat. Funny really, I was over my time limit and the big Guarda Civil launch would tie up at the end of my pontoon. A bit of an own goal really because the Brit was 'jack the Lad' and continually upset some of the locals until one day the Green men marched straight past me and descended on him with wads of paperwork..

 

[Chuteman]

Was Hard to Hide

I "met" more than a few Spanish officials in what I thought was a brief visit this year Sept-Oct

Santander - Customs was standing at the boat when I returned from checking in at marina office - who informed me that Customs & Guardia Civil closely monitored boats checking in. Civil Guardia arrived the next am
Now being an "arrival" port to some degree from France - guess it should not be a surprise

Boarded Underway - Between Almerimar & El Campello - around midnight by Spanish Coast Guard - Went through Customs & Immigration "data" + guick look around boat

El Campello - Guardia Civil (large office on hill above marina) after two days there - they chose 2300+ - to board the boat in the marina and wake me up Same Customs & Immigration "data" review + quick search dance

Even though I had papers from prior "visits" - each set of visitors went through the whole process.
Maybe they just like red-white & blue - stars & stripes

P.S. In Cascais, Portugal marina - Immigration official heard a conversation in english(me) with Marina desk staff and
came out of his office (staffed at marina during the week?) and asked for my passport. After discovering that it had
not been stamped into a Schengen country - he quickly stamped it and told me it was much better that way & it
would avoid "problems" down the road. In reality, it was better for me because it started the 180 day clock that
will have been "renewed" by the time I re-enter Schengen.

P.S 2 - Boarded in France too - Les Sables.......at least 6 Customs & Immigration officers on a Sunday - patrolling marina

P.S. 3 - If You exit or enter by airport or other comm'l means ie; ferry for some time away from boat - that's when You could get "caught" as those controls are unavoidable & often checked by computer

 

[TonyMS]

We asked in a marina (in Ibiza) what they did with the forms. "File them, so that they're available if the police ask for them" , was the answer. I don't think they're posting data into any big database.

However, if they decide to "get" you, it's your problem to prove you haven't been resident for 183 days in the year.

The way to keep below 183 days is obviously to use Portugal, Gibraltar or Morocco, or to lay up and fly home.

Tony

 

[Kimmo]

Hello

This Spanish tax law is also something that has concerned us, as we will be very close of going over the 183 days if it's during a 12 month time period. Does anybody know for sure, if it's during 12 month time period, or during a calendar yer? I've read so many conflicting information about it that my head hurts.

Also, is it sufficient of of getting out of Spain for just one day? We've been thinking of going to see the Spanish country side with a car and drive across the border to France/Andorra and then come back again.

We also read from the Imray's Balearic Island's pilot book, where the author had a "bag full" of airline tickets to North Africa and still the Spanish officials didn't believe that he had been out of Spain.

Just wondering if few meager receipts from a French gas station will be sufficient to convince the officials, that we have been out of Spain...

 

[idpnd]

Hello

This Spanish tax law is also something that has concerned us, as we will be very close of going over the 183 days if it's during a 12 month time period. Does anybody know for sure, if it's during 12 month time period, or during a calendar yer? I've read so many conflicting information about it that my head hurts.

Also, is it sufficient of of getting out of Spain for just one day? We've been thinking of going to see the Spanish country side with a car and drive across the border to France/Andorra and then come back again.

We also read from the Imray's Balearic Island's pilot book, where the author had a "bag full" of airline tickets to North Africa and still the Spanish officials didn't believe that he had been out of Spain.

Just wondering if few meager receipts from a French gas station will be sufficient to convince the officials, that we have been out of Spain...

Just what I've been wondering - as per Michael B's site, I've decided its per calendar year, allowing 2 x 182 days straight

I'm surprised to hear that airline tickets are not considered sufficient proof though

 

[westernman]

Just wondering if few meager receipts from a French gas station will be sufficient to convince the officials, that we have been out of Spain...

I suspect part of the proof that you are not resident in Spain, is the proof that you are resident and paying tax elsewhere.

Authorities in most countries insist that you are resident somewhere. Being not resident anywhere is not really an option anymore.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Please read http://www.jimbsail.info/drupal/going-foreign/time-abroad - This gives a fairly thorough picture of the restrictions on people or boats spending long periods in another EU country.

Note that "tax residence" is to do with the amount of time a person spends in another country. It potentially arises if you spend more than 182 days out of 365 in another country. Different countries express this in different ways. In Portugal and Spain, it's more than 182 days in a calendar year. So you could spend July through to June next year in the country (363 days continuously) without becoming tax resident, as long as you didn't spend any more time in Spain over those two years (and as long as you didn't have a business in those countries).

In terms of assessing this time, if officials have reason to believe you are tax resident, the onus of proof is on you to show that you are not! So keep ferry/plane tickets and credit card encashment slips etc to prove your absence. Or demonstrate you are tax resident in another country with no (local) business establishments. Sailmakers beware . . .

Permission for a boat to stay is a completely separate issue. In the EU, most countries permit EU registered VAT paid boats to stay indefinitely, as long as they pay local boat taxes.

Several UK boats which belonged to people who ignored tax residency issues in Spain have had to pay a one-off "pollution tax" - about 12% of the boat's valuation. So don't accept the advice "keep you head down and you'll be all right" unless you can afford to pay 12%. Instead, invest in a small fee to a Gestor (local tax lawyer) who will explain how to avoid this payment legally. And get the advice before your 182 days are up!

 

[Wansworth]

In the last few days I have met several British people who have bought a houd¡se in Galicia.Many have caravans and cars that they seem to think they can hide from the Police.As with a boat they will be discovered at sometime so if you are going to move to Spain declair your possessions and you will be able to import thwm free of tax in a one off operation.After that there are other hurdles like registering the vessel under Spanish flag and aquiring yachtsmans licence........I no as IT HAPPENED TO ME!