Poignard
Well-known member
Blue ensigns are flaunted 
Flag stuff...
- Thread starter Fantasie 19
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lenseman
Active member
- Joined
- 3 Jun 2006
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- South East Coast - United Kingdom
Actually, owners can wear them too!
Back in the 60's I saw girls wearing the Union flag converted into a pair of knickers.
They always came down at sunset!!
Fantasie 19
Well-known member
Learning all the time - seriously, thanks for the previous update...
I'm intrigued - outside of daylight hours I can understand, but why is it not acceptable to wear a red ensign when ashore??
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Searush
New member
An ensign is a maritime flag, the Union flag is for land based use.
Penton Hooker
New member
HMS Victory is ashore, and she wears her ensign! Good enough for the navy. . . . . .
! Good enough for the navy. . . . . .
Fantasie 19
Well-known member
OK - but the yacht club has a red ensign (not a union) and it is clearly land based.... now I know that in the RYA excerpt VicS gave above this is mentioned - but why can a club use the red ensign, when a boat ashore can't?
I am genuinely interested to know who came up with this set of guidelines (and that is at bottom what they are - nobody's going to lock you up if you get them wrong)..... I get the distinct impression it was a quiet day in the bar the day they did!
So far I now know I've fallen foul of two rules - wearing it at night, wearing it ashore....
I am genuinely interested to know who came up with this set of guidelines (and that is at bottom what they are - nobody's going to lock you up if you get them wrong)..... I get the distinct impression it was a quiet day in the bar the day they did!
So far I now know I've fallen foul of two rules - wearing it at night, wearing it ashore....
Stork_III
Well-known member
Not ashore, she is in dry dock.HMS Victory is ashore, and she wears her ensign
Penton Hooker
New member
Tell me I am wrong, if I am, but is not seniority based on when a club was formed rather than its perceived, and generally valueless social status?
Penton Hooker
New member
Not much water in it!
Is there really an effective difference in being in drydock rather than on a cradle in a boat park? Either way both are out of the water.
andygc
Member
I don't really understand why ensign threads grow so - only rivalled by anchors. There's a law that covers the wearing of flags by British ships, there's a description of the conventional etiquette readily available. Why do people who care about ensigns and people who don't care keep on repeating themselves? Reverend Ludd and PetiteFleur pretty well said it all in posts #2 and #3, with a bit of the rule book from VicS for the benefit of the OP's question. Is there anything else worthwhile to say?
Alpha22
Active member
Billjratt
Active member
Now, about this dry dock thing.............
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Fantasie 19
Well-known member
Hi Andy - well as the OP I'd say I'm getting clearer... but then you went and complicated it by now telling me that it's now covered by a "law"...
I'm not an RYA member - so the excerpt from VicS is all I've got to go on - as a relatively new boater I'm getting the impression flag etiquette is a little like joining the masons... you say that a "description of the conventional etiquette readily available" do you have a link to that??
B.t.w - to answer your first question - it's because it's complicated (to me anyway), and at best it's not intuitive...
Penton Hooker
New member
Fantasie 19, if the Navy can fly its ensign on a sailing ship that is effectively laid up and never going to sea again, and is undoubtedly not in the water, then clearly the Senior Service has set the precedent. Your boat is no different, she's also laid up, is also not in the water, go fly your flag!
By my often absurd reckoning one third of flag etiquette is urban myth, one sixth is law, one sixth is custom and one third is total confusion! That said, we are/were a maritime nation, I reckon its good to uphold our traditions and customs.
By my often absurd reckoning one third of flag etiquette is urban myth, one sixth is law, one sixth is custom and one third is total confusion! That said, we are/were a maritime nation, I reckon its good to uphold our traditions and customs.
st599
Well-known member
When I joined the committee of our sailing club, I was given a pro-forma letter to reprimand members who didn't dip ensigns to me.
Might have to dig it out and start sending it out.
Might have to dig it out and start sending it out.
Flying Penguin
New member
Penton Hooker
New member
Never a rule is my club's case but there was a time when the new Commodore, a member who had taken on the job because no one else wanted it, demanded, quite seriously, that members dipped their ensigns to him. 'Fine', we all said, 'but you must return the salute'. Lord Pomposso turns up the following weekend in his launch, with an ensign on the jackstaff, rigged so he could dip it from his position at the helm. Some very large ensigns soon appeared on quite small boats, dipped with great gusto. Never was a man so ribbed as our new Commodore. Inevitably his demand died a death!
prv
Well-known member
you went and complicated it by now telling me that it's now covered by a "law"...
Some is - mostly about identifying your country of registry when abroad. Most of the rest is just convention.
Pete
Bru
Well-known member
It's pedantry I know but I can't help a fatal academic interest in this sort of thing so ...
With regard to HMS Victory, although she is permanently in dry dock she is in commission, she's not laid up
Therefore, it seems appropriate that she should wear an ensign during the relevant hours
Now when it comes to a yacht on the hard, is she in commission or laid up? If the owner is resident aboard I'd say the former and therefore she could rightly wear an ensign whereas if the latter then she'd be laid up and shouldn't
Not that any of this actually really matters but if you're going to do it you might as well do it right IMO
With regard to HMS Victory, although she is permanently in dry dock she is in commission, she's not laid up
Therefore, it seems appropriate that she should wear an ensign during the relevant hours
Now when it comes to a yacht on the hard, is she in commission or laid up? If the owner is resident aboard I'd say the former and therefore she could rightly wear an ensign whereas if the latter then she'd be laid up and shouldn't
Not that any of this actually really matters but if you're going to do it you might as well do it right IMO
Fantasie 19
Well-known member
Thanks for the responses everyone - especially VicS and Andygc - I have all the info I need....
...I'm the sort of character who doesn't like to give offence, and although I don't necessarily "buy in" to the whole militaristic approach (it's not what I go sailing for to be honest), I appreciate we're not all the same and some set great store by it.... so i'll do my best not to pee those types off in future!
- Don't 'wear' your ensign on your boat when it's ashore
- Don't wear your ensign overnight
- Ditto when you're not on board
...I'm the sort of character who doesn't like to give offence, and although I don't necessarily "buy in" to the whole militaristic approach (it's not what I go sailing for to be honest), I appreciate we're not all the same and some set great store by it.... so i'll do my best not to pee those types off in future!
