First boat, what to buy?

[lpdsn]

Ironically, the Westerlys beloved of many of our "that's not a proper boat" brigade on here have a history of major keel problems on more than one model.

At least with a Centaur if one falls off you have a spare.

PS I hope the OP is not taking all these posts seriously. I've just lost a crew member for the weekend by pointing out that halfway across the North Channel we'd still be not much more than 300m away from the nearest land.

PPS. Given the OPs sailing area a long-keeler than can dry against a stone wall in a small Northumberland harbour or even one that has a shallow enough draught to get into the marina at Seaham isn't entirely a bad idea.

 

[STOL71]

PPS. Given the OPs sailing area a long-keeler than can dry against a stone wall in a small Northumberland harbour or even one that has a shallow enough draught to get into the marina at Seaham isn't entirely a bad idea.

Are you implying that you couldn't dry a fin keel boat against a harbour wall?

 

[Koyukano]

Don't worry guys, i'm taking all advice with a pinch of salt. I have done a fair bit of research and anything that does concern me I would investigate further myself such as keel bolt problems with certain boats. I think a centuar is looking like a good buy at present. The mrs is very supportive of me doing anything hobbies wise as she knows I don't tend to spend much money on myself so she tends to encourage any spending I want to do which is nice. She'll definitely give sailing a go if I got my own boat, we went down to the marina yesterday just for a walk and our little lad spent 30 minutes staring at boats....which helped win her over a bit, good lad he is

Thanks for the article magicalarmchair, will have a good read of it later!

 

[STOL71]

.... I think a centuar is looking like a good buy at present.

Taking advice with a pinch of salt is a good start.
On a more serious note: I started sailing on a bilge keeler. Nothing wrong with them, great boat for drying out, very forgiving when running aground. Centaurs offer great accommodation for their price bracket. Having had my bilge keeler for about 2 years, I couldn't wait to get rid of it, purely due to lack of fun sailing a bilge keeler (in my opinion). I then bought a different hull shape boat and haven't looked back. At the time, the advice I was given was to go sailing on different boats to see what suits me, best I didn't heed that advice and later wished I had. I urge you to go sailing on as many different boats as you can before making up your mind.

 

[Koyukano]

I think that's great advice stol71, i'm definitely not committing to any boat in particular yet. The hunter sonata 26ft is another nice looking boat with a decent interior and apparently has better performance. I have read bilge keelers offer slighlty lower performance but they do have their advantages from what I have read. Probably I will just decide on whatever boats are available at the time of purchase within my budget that are in good condition.

Looking forward to the sailing course in a weeks time!

 

[Baddox]

...we went down to the marina yesterday just for a walk and our little lad spent 30 minutes staring at boats....which helped win her over a bit, good lad he is

Which marina? Our boat is at the Royal Quays and the three of you are welcome to come for a look around it, although it's different to the spec that you're looking for. It may give you some ideas about what you want and what you don't.
You'll need to work out where you want to keep a boat; the type of boat may influence where you can keep it and how much it costs.

 

[lpdsn]

The mrs is very supportive of me doing anything hobbies wise as she knows I don't tend to spend much money on myself so she tends to encourage any spending I want to do which is nice. She'll definitely give sailing a go if I got my own boat...

The secret is don't scare her. Until you develop the knack of looking bored in a F6 or 7 best avoid any rough weather with the Mrs.

 

[lpdsn]

The hunter sonata 26ft is another nice looking boat with a decent interior and apparently has better performance.

Sonata's can still be raced competitively under IRC. But they are an IOR-era boat with not all that much ballast and can be quite tippy if you're not on the ball with the sail trimming.

 

[mrming]

Sonata's can still be raced competitively under IRC. But they are an IOR-era boat with not all that much ballast and can be quite tippy if you're not on the ball with the sail trimming.

I'd go so far as to say the Sonata is an IRC bandit. The pointing and upwind speed is quite something. You're right that they are tippy but that's more just due to the fact that they're powerful and relatively light. IOR era is the right way to put it because there are not really any IOR quirks in the design except perhaps the keel and the reliance on a certain amount of hiking. I've raced it and the big brother Impala a lot, and I love both boats, but they're definitely for people who like to actively sail the boat, dinghy style.

 

[elton]

Don't worry guys, i'm taking all advice with a pinch of salt. I have done a fair bit of research and anything that does concern me I would investigate further myself such as keel bolt problems with certain boats. I think a centuar is looking like a good buy at present. The mrs is very supportive of me doing anything hobbies wise as she knows I don't tend to spend much money on myself so she tends to encourage any spending I want to do which is nice. She'll definitely give sailing a go if I got my own boat, we went down to the marina yesterday just for a walk and our little lad spent 30 minutes staring at boats....which helped win her over a bit, good lad he is

Thanks for the article magicalarmchair, will have a good read of it later!

This is what you need http://www.elton.plus.com/Taringa.html

Until you're an expert you'll not likely tell the difference from Centaur! (except a lot cheaper!)

I need to visit the boat sometime next week, so if you'd like to look her over, give me a shout.

 

[Koyukano]

magicalarmchair that was a good read, it does worry me that you have been sailing all your life and still was apprehensive about pretty much single handing a boat, considering I have only probably 2 hours experience on a boat period and want to single hand by next year

Baddox- We live in Ryhope just between Sunderland and Seaham and went to Sunderland Marina for the walk. Little lad loved it. Thankyou, that is a very kind offer, however I could show the Mrs a £100,000 boat at present and she wouldn't be interested and would likely say "is alright, its a boat isn't it" so that might come across as a little rude given your more than generous offer

Elton- I've looked at a few Pageants online and on Youtube and they cram an awful lot of accommodation onto a relatively small boat, looks like this would also be a good buy. Whereabouts are you based?

I must say I have never actually stepped foot on a yacht/sailboat and only have done 2 hours in a dinghy one time! So would literally have very little idea of what was considered good equipment etc or even a good boat really! The only knowledge I have is just what I have read about which is no substitute for actual experience. Anyway I would love to take a look at some of your boats but I don't think the Mrs would be interested in looking at the moment.

I have broached the subject though, she told me I could buy a boat if I sell the caravan! We only bought it 9 months ago, but sadly someone stole the front locker panel whilst it was parked in the street last month. So it's either build my own or try find a replacement part which appears to no longer be in production. bought it for £3k in April so I think I would still get a fair bit towards a boat for it still! Looking good for next year!

 

[roundm]

Koyukano

I hope you have progressed, I would strongly recommend doing an RYA Comp crew course and a Day skipper course (I would also suggest trying to do these courses on boats as close to the size you are thinking of as possible - i.e don't learn on a brand new 45ft boat if you expect to buy a 25fter, try and find and oldish 30fter instead) and joining a club and crewing for as many skippers as will take you out (which will be most!). Get some mileage on passages rather than racing (milebuilders do work for this albeit I prefer short trips with lost of navigation and mooring practice to long sails in a straight line for practice)

I'd make a few observations on the discussion that has gone on.

1) size isn't really a barrier to single handing, experience (practice) and setting up the boat to be easy to sail is the key. I've a fair bit of practice and I single hand 35 - 45 footers pretty often. I've taken smaller boats out that were harder to handle because they didn't behave well and larger boats that are a doddle as modern hulls are (in general) well behaved. After all Pro's take 60+ footers round the world single handed
2) single handing is easy - it just takes time, effort, energy and planning around most activities (for example it takes longer to raise and lower sails single handed than with an able crew) and sorting problems is harder and takes more thought that effort (e.g. when something breaks, stop and think when single handed, with a crew you can 'man handle' issues into submission sometimes - having said that, stopping and thinking is ALWAYS a good idea!)
3) the hardest maneuver to manage single handed is mooring, so practice with a crew ideas and techniques for short handed mooring. This will also pay dividends when you take friends and family out as you can make the whole exercise simpler and with more time and space for any errors (which may not be yours - they may come from that willing crew mentioned earlier!). I teach this and tend to regard early evening in a mooring as time for a spectator sport and watching how not to do it! you can learn a lot from others errors!
4) look at your intended sailing area. Some insurers are not willing to insure a small (less than 26ft) yacht to cross the English channel for example. So that means a 23ft boat will rule that cruising area out.

If you are learning, don't rush to get something too performant - it'll scare you and your family when you make a mistake (and we all do! I've owned 4 yachts over the last 25 years and grew up sailing with family. I am now an RYA instructor and I still make mistakes - and my boat got hit when tied up in it's mooring last year - by my neighbour who is one of the most famous round the world sailors out there!). It'll also tend to be more uncomfortable in duff weather - and we all get caught occasionally. A more modern design will (probably) handle more predictably when mooring (contessa's, nicholsons and so on are notorious for not going backwards in a straight line or predictably, boats from people like Jeaneau, Bavaria, Beneteau are well behaved) boats with separate rudders from the keel is the clue here. some older designs have 'quirks' built in . Whatever you get (from the sizes discussed) will probably top out around 5 and a bit knots (and believe me it'll feel fast!) as speed in a displacement boat is directly linked to it's length on the water - you can't really fake that! (40ft will do around 8 knots, 35ft around 7 and 30ft around 6 ish - all plus or minus a little based on design, weight, sail area, skill and a whole bunch of other stuff). remember everything is a trade off and speed costs!

and I hope you love it - it's a fab hobby and there is nothing quite like it.

Mark

magicalarmchair that was a good read, it does worry me that you have been sailing all your life and still was apprehensive about pretty much single handing a boat, considering I have only probably 2 hours experience on a boat period and want to single hand by next year

Baddox- We live in Ryhope just between Sunderland and Seaham and went to Sunderland Marina for the walk. Little lad loved it. Thankyou, that is a very kind offer, however I could show the Mrs a £100,000 boat at present and she wouldn't be interested and would likely say "is alright, its a boat isn't it" so that might come across as a little rude given your more than generous offer

Elton- I've looked at a few Pageants online and on Youtube and they cram an awful lot of accommodation onto a relatively small boat, looks like this would also be a good buy. Whereabouts are you based?

I must say I have never actually stepped foot on a yacht/sailboat and only have done 2 hours in a dinghy one time! So would literally have very little idea of what was considered good equipment etc or even a good boat really! The only knowledge I have is just what I have read about which is no substitute for actual experience. Anyway I would love to take a look at some of your boats but I don't think the Mrs would be interested in looking at the moment.

I have broached the subject though, she told me I could buy a boat if I sell the caravan! We only bought it 9 months ago, but sadly someone stole the front locker panel whilst it was parked in the street last month. So it's either build my own or try find a replacement part which appears to no longer be in production. bought it for £3k in April so I think I would still get a fair bit towards a boat for it still! Looking good for next year!

 

[Dutch01527]

That is a difficult budget area. There are loads of boats that are basically knackered, old fashioned and almost impossible to sell. I would look at the top end of the budget if you can even if it means waiting a bit. Look at boats up to about £15k and wait for one that has a motivated seller who will accept £10k or close to that, well maintained, an interior you can live with, 26-30 foot ( the bigger the better). Select the best boat and do not put too much emphasis on research / facts and figures. Ideally look for a boat that has been owned by a perfectionist who has maintained it obsessively.

Unless you will never sail with a female partner do not ignore the interior. Most sub £10k boats are basically grotty. Look at German or Scandinavia boats. Think of a 30 year old British Leyland or Citroen car vs a 30 year old BMW or Saab. Which would you rather sleep in on average?

I admit to being biased but my 34 year old Dehler Duetta 86 has an interior better than many 10 year old boats, sails well, is easy to single hand and would not cost much if anything more than your budget (It is not for sale by the way). My wife is very picky and even she says it is nice. The only other boats I have been on that feel modern, clean and attractive of a similar age have been Moodys but they were much more expensive. I am sure that there are many more that fit that description and I am sure others will suggest models to look at.

 

[Praxinoscope]

I would certainly recommend a Sadler25, Fairly spacious down below, although some do complain about the headroom, they sail like dream, light on the helm, and can handle heavy weather as well as still move in light winds. It was a David Sadler classic. Still competive if you want to race, and good for cruising, available with deep fin, shallow fin or bilge keel. Built to a high standard and well within your price range.

 

[roundm]

actually - really good point - if sailing with a significant other - look out for a boat with a proper separate heads! it'll be worth it in brownie points

 

[thesaintlyone]

Put Simply Don't

Follow your plan but look to do your courses with a school that offers discount trips to students that have completed one of their courses I did my competent crew with Elite in Chatham and get regular emails of discounted places for mile building

As others have said join a club with a good cruising contingent and if possible dinghy school/training youll get to know members and end up sailing on their boats.

There is a lot more to owning a boat than just the sailing for example where are you going to keep her, who are you going to sail with or are you going to single hand if so how do you moor. dock etc. if you keep her on a swing mooring which is generally cheaper than step on step off marina berths you'll need a tender as well.

Judging by some of your replies just go out there and get as much experience as possible with others on their boats then you wont have to ask what boat to buy cause you'll know what you want

Plenty of cheap boats out there owned by beginners who didn't factor in the above considerations.

My first boat a 21footer sold for £1000 to a guy who didnt factor in mooring or anything else and within months was repossessed by the marina cause he owed £800 in unpaid berthing

With hindsight I probably would of done it this way