eBorders - What do you want to know?

[snooks]

What do you want to know about eBorders?

Yachting Monthly would like to know the questions you would like answered about the forthcoming eborders scheme....

Either reply here or Email: dick_durham@ipcmedia.com and we'll see what we can do to get you the information you'd like to know

 

[Pye_End]

How are we supposed to put in our 'passage plan' with no computer / internet capability aboard, particularly when leaving from an anchorage/small port when no other shore connection is available?

 

[Pye_End]

Why are they doing this?

How will the e-borders scheme stop people sneeking across the border without notifying the authorities?

 

[Gwylan]

Firstly - thought it was borders - or is this too subtle comment on piracy, currently in the news. Or other reports related to the Borders Agency alleged operating methods.

There is no doubt that most sailors want to see our borders protected and want to co-operate with any programme that does that.

My experience of sailing is that you make a plan so that you have something to change.

The core question is whether any of the people at the Borders Agency who are driving this programme understand what happens on a sailing boat?

The lack of an on line facility on most sailing boats makes filing a plan difficult.

Alternatives suggested in replies from the Home Secretary suggest the availability of internet cafes and wi-fi provision by marinas.
Finding an internet cafe has become almost impossible. Or they are in parts of town at some distance from the marina, port, harbour. Or areas of town that one might be reluctant to visit certainly after dark.

The fact that some marinas provide wi-fi is fine, but you need to have a computer, mobile phone or something installed to take advantage of that facility. And register and pay, sometimes excessively, for the facility.

What happens when you are at anchor prior to leaving for the UK and cannot file a plan?

What is the RYA doing, since it is currently designated as representing the interests of this segment of the Borders Agency client base?

Also what happens if our European neighbours decide to take reciprocal action?

 

[wotayottie]

I'd like to know how seriously to take it all - but you wont get a sensible official answer to that..

We know we can ignore many minor laws from speed limits to mobiles whilst driving to cash "no vat" deals, as long as we are careful and not silly about it. Are these border rules going to be effectively implemented or will it be the usual half hearted exercise by the civil servants involved. After all, the old yellow flag / reporting in / free pratique system was mostly just ignored.

And before anyone gets pious, I dont use a mobile whilst driving or indeed at other times. But many many people do so without any retribution.

 

[wotayottie]

..........when on passage to England what flag should I display to indicate to other vessels that approaching within 25 metres will attract a burst of AK47?

When you think about it "AK47" is the sort of brand recognition that most businesses would die for. Who hasnt heard of AK47 and Kalashnikov?

 

[David_Jersey]

Given that English waters are now full of Drug Smugglers, Pirates, people Smugglers and Terrorists I will in future be travelling fully armed..........when on passage to England what flag should I display to indicate to other vessels that approaching within 25 metres will attract a burst of AK47?

 

[Woodlouse]

What action will the state take against me when I routinely ignore the legislation whilst sailing?

 

[srm]

Going back to the OP - my understanding, based on observation a couple of years ago is that the UK has an open boarder with the Irish Republic that anyone can walk, drive, or sail across. If this is indeed the case (I am willing to be corrected) how can the eboarders concept actually work? All it will do is inconvenience the consciencious and law abiding while anyone with criminal intent will cross the border at will and unmonitored.
I emailed this concern to my MP and asked for clarification about a month ago - not even an acknowledgement to date.

 

[Koeketiene]

What action will the state take against me when I routinely ignore the legislation whilst sailing?

And how do they intend to enforce it?

 

[bluemoongaffer]

I guess it's going to happen whether we like it or not. So, please can we have a mobile enabled service so we can either access the site via 3G or, even better just send a text

 

[sailorman]

Why are they doing this?

How will the e-borders scheme stop people sneeking across the border without notifying the authorities?

the same way as the policing of firearms
its the criminals that have them the honest Citizen isn't allowed to have them

 

[Flapjack]

Well, from what I can tell from the web site there’s no information about how they are going to implement this just a non specific date of 2010, no details of how this applies to us and how we are supposed to supply this information.

 

[samwise]

I'd like to know how seriously to take it all - but you wont get a sensible official answer to that..

We know we can ignore many minor laws from speed limits to mobiles whilst driving to cash "no vat" deals, as long as we are careful and not silly about it. Are these border rules going to be effectively implemented or will it be the usual half hearted exercise by the civil servants involved. After all, the old yellow flag / reporting in / free pratique system was mostly just ignored.

And before anyone gets pious, I dont use a mobile whilst driving or indeed at other times. But many many people do so without any retribution.

Surely the yellow flag was ignored because there were so few of us coming back from Le Continent with rare and infectious diseases!

 

[Boat44]

I would like to know the following:
1) If this is to be law, how is it to be enforced. If it is not enforced it is pointless;
2) In enforcing it, how is this to be accomplished, whilst discerning between those travelling within UK waters and those travelling from outside?
3) How is the public supposed to access the system, when most boats do not have internet access, nor are in areas where there is internet access.
4) How is the system supposed to be updated when in a great deal of situations the skipper does not know the full crew complement until they leave.
5) How is the system supposed to be updated when in a great deal of situations the skipper does not know the final port until they have actually set sail.
6) Where does the burden of proof lie; on the skipper to prove he did everything reasonably praticable to complete whatever forms are required, or the Government to prove he didn't.
7) As 4 and 5 will happen on a continuous and regular basis and its is to be demonstrated/argued that the skipper did everything "reasonably practicable" to complete whatever forms, what is and who defines "reasonably practicable"?
8) When chartering a yacht/boat, who is legally required to complete the "forms", bearing in mind that a charter company has almost no control over those that go onboard, or the destination of the charterers, other than in the bounds of the charter agreement, usually bounded by the insurance cover.

I would also like to know when the next election is so we can get ride of this bunch of muppets.

 

[sailaboutvic]

...

it laws like this that make prople brake the law , just like the pet passport law .

 

[jac]

Some good points on here

Ok for me the questions are:

1) As most boats don't have internet access and many bays, moorings etc don;t have wifi coverage - how can we register. If at home / or marina then what flexibility is there in the timescales - e.g. i leave Poole for Cherbourg having registered that i'm straight off - Wind isn't great so i anchor somewhere to wait. I then go 24 hours later having spent a pleasant 24 hours watching the seahorses.

2) How do i register if i'm already at sea and need to go to france.

3) How will the authorities know that the information entered is correct. If i was to smuggle Osama Bin Laden back from France to UK I'd possibly not put his real name on the crew list so how will they catch him?

4) Even if i put his name on the crew list, how will they catch me? On a busy day with lots of yachts crossing or a small yacht at night with no reflector is going to be hard to locate the boat. Even if they know when i leave i will probably dissapear off the radar fairly quickly and then who knows what course I'll actually take.

5) How much is this going to cost the tax payer and the user.

6) How do they distinguish between a boat on a day sail and one from abroad.

7) Will this only apply to UK boats - what about foreign boats entering UK waters? IF not then won't smugglers just use Irish boats.

8) How will a boat travelling a long distance ( e,g, transatlantic) know when it is expected and what punishment will be in place if they don't turn up when expected.

9) What sanctions will be in place for failing to declare and who will they be levied against. WHat about boats in joint ownership with both there - who is the skipper? OR boats where the owner isn't there?

 

[Searush]

Notification by text is a jolly good idea if this is to be made to work. While internet access on your boat is for the savvy few techies, most of us have a mobile & could send a text if necessary. It would be fairly easy to send a correction if plans change for any reason. There might be problems if one decided to go to France instead of Jersey due to bad weather. The CI have different mobile phone companies & roaming would need to be enabled.

Mobile coverage at sea is not great, but is reasonable within a mile or two of the coast & a text could be sent while at the tiller - try going on line while steering if you can!

It will be interesting to see what happens when people sail across the channel & back without landing. What will be accepted as proof of NOT landing?

 

[Twister_Ken]

"It will be interesting to see what happens when people sail across the channel & back without landing."

That's what we used to call RORC races.

 

[Searush]

"It will be interesting to see what happens when people sail across the channel & back without landing."

That's what we used to call RORC races.

Quite. But if racing, you are registered as an entrant & have a published course plus organisers to deal with the official carp for you.