Do we need a LOUD VOICE similar to that of The Ramblers Association ?

[penberth3]

I truly feel sorry for those outside Scotland, the land should be free to roam and enjoy , responsibly.

There's plenty of Access Land in England, but "responsibly" is the problem. The amount of mess, litter and damage suggests a lack of knowledge and respect. And I'm sure a lot of it comes from people who claim to be into all the "green" stuff. I have a lot of sympathy for the farmers, landowners and other rural businesses.

 

[FlyingGoose]

There's plenty of Access Land in England, but "responsibly" is the problem. The amount of mess, litter and damage suggests a lack of knowledge and respect. And I'm sure a lot of it comes from people who claim to be into all the "green" stuff. I have a lot of sympathy for the farmers, landowners and other rural businesses.

There lies the problems in many cases and still happens in Scotland, but there is an active campaign to keep Scotland clean from many organisations, like the forestry, NTS, mountaineering scotland, all the hill walking groups and the Scottish government, etc
Landowners are also consulted and positively encouraged to engage with signs , keeping access free and reporting those that make a mess.
Difficult yes but the movment has taken off ,
I still get depressed when I see a campsite left with mess and even tents left

 

[Bru]

Hmm...I'm trying to imagine just how threatening a speccy bloke in a kagool can be. I'm all for changing the image of yachting from blazers and red trousers but I was thinking more dreadlocked freeclimber / adventurer / eco warrior than couture by millets.

Were they cross at you for riding or not giving way to pedestrians?

He was a big bloke with a very aggressive and v threatening manner.

I had stopped to let his gang of forty plus ramblers pass

The incidents i related were far from isolated. They were the worst two that i experienced and can recall

Whether cycling bridleways, driving on byways or even walking on footpaths (all of which i did a lot of when, for several years, i was Rights of Way Practice Officer for the Green Lane Association) your heart always missed a beat when you saw a large group of ramblers approaching.

 

[WoodyP]

We bought our current place just because there were no rights of way over it, Its all mine, mine, I tell you.
Having had to deal over a long career with the great british public who feel they are entitled to go where they will without a thought, it is sheer bliss to get away from it all. Loads of public footpaths all over the place that are not used, but still they want more.
A bit of pressure now to mirror the situation in Scotland, which was one of the reasons we avoided Scotland in our retirement search.

 

[zoidberg]

A bit of pressure now to mirror the situation in Scotland, which was one of the reasons we avoided Scotland in our retirement search.

Me, too.... although I was born/brought up there..... and I love sailing there, except during WHW.

"Hell is other people's children" ( Adapted from Sartre )

 

[FlyingGoose]

We bought our current place just because there were no rights of way over it, Its all mine, mine, I tell you.
Having had to deal over a long career with the great british public who feel they are entitled to go where they will without a thought, it is sheer bliss to get away from it all. Loads of public footpaths all over the place that are not used, but still they want more.
A bit of pressure now to mirror the situation in Scotland, which was one of the reasons we avoided Scotland in our retirement search.

Is that not the problem , how much land do you need how big an estate to gaze over with ones binoculars saying all mine no one else is allowed on my land
Thankfully you did not come to scotland , or you would have an interesting time like many others from around d the world who think they can come to Scotland and buy up the land all for themselves.
I usually respond to such people who challenge me with a big grin and I ignore them.
Had a farmer once follow my wife , she went into his field were he was cutting grass , the mutts like to chase tractors , so she got hold of them and drove off , well the farmer followed her to another field some way down the road ,
The wife was stomping across his field with the dogs and he drove right up to her flexing his manly behaviour, demanding why she left one field was it because she had the dogs
Poor farmer has not met my wife a dr of Ecology that deals with land owners, resivors, private estates in Scotland as part of her work and for SEPA .
No she told him , I am walking my dogs and I took the sensible decision to remove them from your working field,
He then blustered to her well you better pick up your sog mess , no she said, the field is fallow and not used for grazing animals or crops at the moment
The farmer turned tail muttering to himself.
Thank goodness I live in Scotland with the attitude of some

 

[Beneteau381]

Is that not the problem , how much land do you need how big an estate to gaze over with ones binoculars saying all mine no one else is allowed on my land
Thankfully you did not come to scotland , or you would have an interesting time like many others from around d the world who think they can come to Scotland and buy up the land all for themselves.
I usually respond to such people who challenge me with a big grin and I ignore them.
Had a farmer once follow my wife , she went into his field were he was cutting grass , the mutts like to chase tractors , so she got hold of them and drove off , well the farmer followed her to another field some way down the road ,
The wife was stomping across his field with the dogs and he drove right up to her flexing his manly behaviour, demanding why she left one field was it because she had the dogs
Poor farmer has not met my wife a dr of Ecology that deals with land owners, resivors, private estates in Scotland as part of her work and for SEPA .
No she told him , I am walking my dogs and I took the sensible decision to remove them from your working field,
He then blustered to her well you better pick up your sog mess , no she said, the field is fallow and not used for grazing animals or crops at the moment
The farmer turned tail muttering to himself.
Thank goodness I live in Scotland with the attitude of some

pot calling kettle black!

 

[FlyingGoose]

pot calling kettle black!

Pot and black does not compute can you be specific, it's the new moon coming makes it hard to de cipher code

 

[Capt Popeye]

Thank you all; back to my local 'Flow Lane' sittuation which I have taken a personal interest in; well walk it last week and took some phtographs along the way, to record the whats what and where at that point in time; added some Photographs on here to show the opposiion to our Public access in 'Flow Lane'

 

[Capt Popeye]

Further photographs (if now possible ?)

 

[Capt Popeye]

Well for some unknown reason the actual sign possibly errected by the House / Ground owners will NOT upload onto these pages; do not understand why; but the signage states Private Property and Beach, the word Beach has been crossed out; but the Govt Map showing the foreshore indicate that our Crown / Govt clearly shows that the Forshore is Crown / Govt owned so treading directly off the Public Footpath onto said Crown / Govt foreshore is I suppose actually legal (certainly not Private Property) unless there is something that I do not understand ?

 

[Bristolfashion]

Some landowners choose to deal with uncertainty about the exact route of a right of way by installing clearer signage, making gates and stiles obvious and, occasionally, providing a fenced pathway.

The confusion seems to be landowners of any type that think that they have absolute rights over their land - none of us do. The rights of the landowner are balanced with the needs of society and the walker has as much right to follow a right of way across a field as a farmer has to drive on a road to the supermarket. Our need for exercise and a reconnection with nature is every bit as important as a drive to IKEA.

There is a small proportion of any group (motorists, cyclists, walkers etc) who are careless, aggressive and all the rest, all we can do is mitigate risks (signage to shut gates, speed cameras etc) and, at the end of the day, put up with a little inconvenience.

 

[Bru]

I'm struggling to see a problem from the photos. There's pedestrian access to the side of the gate.

The private property sign suggests the landowner owns, or believes they own, the land to the high water mark and that's quite likely the case (that's a Land Registry job assuming the land has changed hands in modern times)

 

[Scomber]

Some landowners choose to deal with uncertainty about the exact route of a right of way by installing clearer signage, making gates and stiles obvious and, occasionally, providing a fenced pathway.

The confusion seems to be landowners of any type that think that they have absolute rights over their land - none of us do. The rights of the landowner are balanced with the needs of society and the walker has as much right to follow a right of way across a field as a farmer has to drive on a road to the supermarket. Our need for exercise and a reconnection with nature is every bit as important as a drive to IKEA.

There is a small proportion of any group (motorists, cyclists, walkers etc) who are careless, aggressive and all the rest, all we can do is mitigate risks (signage to shut gates, speed cameras etc) and, at the end of the day, put up with a little inconvenience.

Very well said , can't remember who said it but "we are merely custodians in our own lifetime".

 

[Capt Popeye]

I'm struggling to see a problem from the photos. There's pedestrian access to the side of the gate.

The private property sign suggests the landowner owns, or believes they own, the land to the high water mark and that's quite likely the case (that's a Land Registry job assuming the land has changed hands in modern times)

Yes I can understand that I have a photo of an official looking sign that I assume an owner had made and displayed, but this system will not let me upload it; tried about 6 times now just refuses to load it;

Anyways the sign states -

PRIVATE PROPERTY
including the Beach
Footpath access only at low water

Its rather telling that the reference to 'Beach' has been obscured by handwriting in the past, then rewritten upon by hand.

Its the Public Access to the Shore / Beach thats in question; looking at the Crown's Claims on their website indicates that they, have juristiction up to the 'Mean High Water mark' which just about reaches the house /grounds owners boundaries that are raised somewhat .
Maybe its a case of the Grounds Owners misunderstanding where any boundary actually is plus misrepresenting the guidence given, as to traverse the Beach / Shoreline one does not have to wait for actual Low Tide to walk the Designated Crown Land, does one ?

 

[Habebty]

If at HW the beach is covered up to the raised land which presumably belongs to the landowner, then yes, you will have to wait until the tide goes out. So there will only be public access from the end of the footpath to the beach when the tide has receded sufficiently to permit access. (Unless you have some waders)

 

[Bristolfashion]

I've just subscribed to the OS maps apps - looks like a great way to prove that you are on a right of way - or get back to one if you're lost!

Our family home used to have a right of way through the end of the garden - about 3 or 4m away from the back door (in a town, not out in the country). We never worried about it, it was associated with the historic cattle market and a little scrap of history.

Interestingly, where I am during "lockdown" is a private courtyard in a marina development - we continually get lost walkers (and cars) coming to try and access around the marina (there's no car access & the permissary path is closed due to COVID). We don't worry about it and just give directions /advice if asked. Perhaps city dwellers are just more laid back and friendly than country inhabitants?

 

[Bru]

I'm puzzled by the "Footpath access only at Low Water"

Much depends on where that sign is located

The PRoW is to the MHWM, any access beyond that, if it exists, is permissive

Crown Estates foreshore land below the MHWM is usually open access (access is only rarely restricted when there are very specific reasons to do so e.g. military firing ranges etc)

I'm guessing that the sign is either a misinterpretation or a misrepresentation of the access beyond the PRoW which, assuming the usual situation applies, is only below the MHWM

 

[Rappey]

Cant upload map showing row around flow lane but from the councils website there are only public footpaths going to the shore but not along them.
The councils definitive map held in Exeter shows the current law full rights of way.
An online version can also be viewed
Loading...
Managed to crop. Is this the area/ beach in question?

 

[Quandary]

Beside the right to roam we in the boating community are also stronglyrepresented in the corridors of power up here by RYA Scotland, their recent report on their representations to keep sailing going during Covid show a branch up here that it is really switched on to our interests. Shame that our southern brethren do not think they have the same. Of course we are also blessed by a more approachable and responsive form of government.