Do we need a LOUD VOICE similar to that of The Ramblers Association ?

[Capt Popeye]

I would say its not the association but some of its members that are obstructive!

Perhaps I misunderstand, but whats positively obstructive about wanting to retain a Public Right Of Way ; its in all our interests to keep such rights of way open for us to use, surely ?
Was reading recently about Landowners in Suffolk who between them bought and sold each other land stretching from Felistowe to Ipswitch and Woodbridge so making it impossible for country folk to travel easily to from the markets and the Landowners instructed their Gamekeepers to apprehend any persons found upon their land as trespasers or out to steal game etc; real bstds eh ?

 

[Rappey]

It was the Nerc act in2006 that lost us off roaders so many byways, now restricted byways, spured on by the tramplers association members..
Various parishes had a choice of keeping a byway or changing it to a restricted byway, as a result we have a 14 mile long one where there is a full byway in the central part but each end is a restricted one making it impossible to get to it anyway.
I believe "trespassers will be prosecuted" is not legal as you cant be prosecuted for wandering across private land unless causing criminal damage. the police cant do anything unless the land owner wants to take you to court, then its possibly civil.
Land owners and game wardens have no legal right to touch you or detain you unless warranted to do so ?
Ramblers that try to obstruct you on a byway are obstructing a public highway.. (a good roosting from the rear wheels usually sorts them out ) The list goes on...

As for the LOUD voice to protect our boating interests, as already mentioned the rya seem to do a fairly good job at that.

 

[Wansworth]

Whether it is true,a landowner berated a rambler crossing his land saying my forefathers fought for this ete,etc at which the rambler said ok ,I will fight you for it....?

 

[penberth3]

........I believe "trespassers will be prosecuted" is not legal as you cant be prosecuted for wandering across private land unless causing criminal damage. the police cant do anything unless the land owner wants to take you to court, then its possibly civil........

I think there's legislation "in the pipeline" that's going to extend criminal trespass. Aimed at the caravan dwelling community, but I've seen warnings of unintended consequences.

 

[penberth3]

.........Throughout that period, since 1953, there has been a clear legal framework defining what is, and what is not, a public right of way. That framework was originally based on earlier legal definitions thereof. No such framework exists for things like slipways, quays or navigation related rights in general.........

I thought it might get complicated around the high water mark. All interesting stuff!

 

[Rappey]

,I will fight you for it.

I can wholly believe that from experience! I chatted to one farmer who was furious that ramblers took the right to roam meaning they could short cut it through his garden which they frequently did.. He liked the vehicle users as they respectfully drove slowly through his farm yard and always closed the gates behind them !

I think there's legislation "in the pipeline" that's going to extend criminal trespass

And rightly so... I think its awefull that travellers can break onto someones private land then the local council threatens the land owner with prosecution unless he gets them removed, and ive yet to see travellers leave a plot of land in the same condition as what it was when they arrived

 

[Rappey]

I thought it might get complicated around the high water mark. All interesting stuff!

Slipways are usually on council land so are protected by the council? Many private beaches have a public right of way along the top of the beach, or do whatever you like below the high water mark as thats crown estates? Cant speak for quays as they are often privately owned

 

[penberth3]

Slipways are usually on council land so are protected by the council? Many private beaches have a public right of way along the top of the beach, or do whatever you like below the high water mark as thats crown estates? Cant speak for quays as they are often privately owned

You've made a lot of assumptions there. I've no idea who owns slipways, I wouldn't say it's "usually the council". If it is - which council, County, Borough, Parish? You'll probably find examples of all three, and more. What you think is a public RoW might not be public at all. And doing whatever you like on Crown Estate Land - good luck with that!

 

[Rappey]

If it's a public slipway ,which most are around here then I kinda hoped my assumption would be right..
Public row is lookup able.
Crown Estate land- what can I say ?
I'm sure someone will know the current and correct facts even if I don't ?

 

[Bru]

You are being unfair to the very difficult position of the Rambler's Association in the past.

They did good work in their early days, of that there is no doubt

Unfair today though? I think not

I have personally been involved in trying to stop the Ramblers Association and a local authority rights of way officer in their collusion to "re-route" a byway from one side of a hedge to another and changing it's status to footpath in the process.

I have personally been physically threatened by a Ramblers Association walk leader whilst legally cycling on a bridleway and been subjected to crude verbal abuse by RA members whilst legally driving on a byway with my young children in the vehicle

I've spent many many hours in meetings with Council officials and representatives of all the various user groups where, without fail, the Ramblers Association pursued an incessant agenda of restricting rights of way to walkers only and objecting to any and every proposal

I could go on but my blood pressure is rising! I have absolutely no time for the RA whatsoever

PS. As for the rerouting of rights of way, if they were amended by a Definitive Map Order, the landower could not subsequently claim they were "permissive paths". A DMO is also the only way the original right of way could be extinguished. So in your scenario, something untoward must have been going on for what you describe to happen.

 

[awol]

Is this really the same country that voted to "take back control"?

 

[Habebty]

Ah well given up trying to repost Flying Goose replies so yes I did not know that in Bonnie Scotland you or one as the case may be had those right, you Sir Mc ? are indeed very lucky to have them, just wish we in the Lower GB area had similar rights to enjoy.
Not far from me, about 6 miles away, there is a very small dirt lane that leads down to the River Teign, crossing under a Low Railway Bridge with a solitary house with forshore access directly to its gardens /land; photos of pre war show boats, mainly fishing etc plus small barges on the forshore, nowadays its has 'Keep OUT and Off' notices in the area, 'No Trespasing' signs etc ; any form of boating there, including landing, is frowned upon and discouraged by the Householders. I have tried a few times to encourage the local villiagers to walk the lane at regular intervals in order to maintain its citizens rights to travel that lane onto the foreshore and fundus, without much sucess, so I now plan to get the The Ramblers Associon involved and see if we can restore those rights of access ?

If you are talking about Flow Lane, there is no public access beyond the end of the highway. A little further along at Luxton's Steps, is a marked footpath over the railway leading to the foreshore. Maybe you are going to the wrong place?

 

[Capt Popeye]

If you are talking about Flow Lane, there is no public access beyond the end of the highway. A little further along at Luxton's Steps, is a marked footpath over the railway leading to the foreshore. Maybe you are going to the wrong place?

Ah you do know the Lane then, yes it is the Lane that I had in mind, I used to walk it every year for many years when on Holiday in S Devon.
Might ask you though, what you mean by the end of the highway, as a highway in road terms runs past its begining very soon becoming an un-made up road pathway leading down towards the Railway Bridge which used to be too low for a car /van to pass underneath, under the low rail bridge leads to the House on the right hand side with its gardens and grounds then the foreshore opens up in front of one.
I will look for that other lane /road that leads down to the river, thank you fr that information.

Re earlier comments about the shore below Mean High Water Mark belonging to the Crown usually, and above the Mean High Water Mark belonging to the Councils or maybe a private owner; well we all walk upon that Crown or Private shore when we paddle in a river or to gain access to our boats, so not really any probs walking on the Crown Estate Fundus etc as far as I can see ?

 

[Bru]

Ah you do know the Lane then, yes it is the Lane that I had in mind, I used to walk it every year for many years when on Holiday in S Devon.
Might ask you though, what you mean by the end of the highway, as a highway in road terms runs past its begining very soon becoming an un-made up road pathway leading down towards the Railway Bridge which used to be too low for a car /van to pass underneath, under the low rail bridge leads to the House on the right hand side with its gardens and grounds then the foreshore opens up in front of one.
I will look for that other lane /road that leads down to the river, thank you fr that information.

All public rights of way are legally highways be they footpaths, bridleways, byways or carriageways

If I have identified Flow Lane correctly, it is indicated as a Footpath PRoW to the High Water line on the 1:25000 OS map. That is not of itself definitive but it is directly derived from the Definitive Map

Checking map.devon.gov.uk/dccviewer/MyLocalPaths/ I find confirmation that Flow Lane is a public footpath to the High Water mark

If the landowner is obstructing or discouraging public access to the lane on foot, that is an offence. Kick bottoms at the County Council. You may need big heavy boots and a lot of patience though because most council highways departments have very few if any staff dedicated to PRoW (when last I was dealing with them, Northants had one part time!)

The Parish Council may also have a Rights of Way officer (my Dad used to be one for our home parish for many years)

And I really really hate to say this (but it's a footpath so they can't do any damage!) the Ramblers Association may be of assistance

 

[Bru]

PS Most (all by now?) County Councils have their PRoW Definitive Maps online although any legal action needs to refer to the physical definitive map and schedule held at the council offices

 

[zoidberg]

....One should also experience the freedoms we have in Scotland , no farmer or land owner or even a Duke shouting get off my land, and when we come across such persons , who are usually english owners not accustomed to our freedoms we politely point to them to the Scottish access code.2003 , and smile and wave as we traverse the land, use the beaches sea fish or put out kayak into a loch or river even trot our ponies across the land....

I remember tales of the Kinder Scout Mass Trespass.... But today's English are too cowed, brainwashed, indoctrinated, to take hold of their rights as Free Men.
'Magna Carta' may have influenced the law, the rights of individuals, the US Preamble To The Constitution, and ultimately the UN Declaration of Human Rights, but I'm given to understand we - er, you - don't even teach about it in your schools today.

You can walk the mountains and coasts of Norway and Sweden, and Scotland. You may hike the Grandes Randonnées, Grote Routepaden or Lange-afstand-wandelpaden, Grande Rota and Gran Recorrido networks of long-distance footpaths in Europe. You can even wander at will in the endless forests and mountains of Russia should you so wish. Berries and mushrooms are yours for the taking.

Try that in an English Royal Park!

 

[Bru]

'Magna Carta' may have influenced the law, the rights of individuals, the US Preamble To The Constitution, and ultimately the UN Declaration of Human Rights, but I'm given to understand we - er, you - don't even teach about it in your schools today.

Actually they do but what they correctly teach is that Magna Carta had stuff all to do with the rights of the common man. It was actually all about the rights of the barons versus the rights of the king

You can walk the mountains and coasts of Norway and Sweden, and Scotland. You may hike the Grandes Randonnées, Grote Routepaden or Lange-afstand-wandelpaden, Grande Rota and Gran Recorrido networks of long-distance footpaths in Europe. You can even wander at will in the endless forests and mountains of Russia should you so wish. Berries and mushrooms are yours for the taking.

Try that in an English Royal Park!

You can walk the mountains of England and Wales just as freely these days thanks to the Right to Roam. Significant lowland areas are now access lands thanks to land management agreements and permissive rights too. And most of the coast can be walked as well. If you know your way around the rights of way network there are few places in England and Wales you can't see

And there's a whole array of (relatively) long distance paths - the Pennine Way, the Coast to Coast, etc etc and that network continues to grow

the real problem with England's lowland rights of way network is often lack of use. Paths which are not regularly walked rapidly become overgrown and impassable. ANd it is true that there are some landowners who make life difficult or even impossible but they can be taken to task and brought to heel (eventually!)

What people forget when making comparisons with other countries is that much of lowland England is heavily managed and relatively densley populated. It is simply impractical to have a right to roam across lowland farmland where crops are growing etc. And even in Scotland there are restrictions on where you can actually roam at wll;

 

[laika]

I have personally been physically threatened by a Ramblers Association walk leader whilst legally cycling on a bridleway

Hmm...I'm trying to imagine just how threatening a speccy bloke in a kagool can be. I'm all for changing the image of yachting from blazers and red trousers but I was thinking more dreadlocked freeclimber / adventurer / eco warrior than couture by millets.

Were they cross at you for riding or not giving way to pedestrians?

 

[penberth3]

Hmm...I'm trying to imagine just how threatening a speccy bloke in a kagool can be.....

You'd be surprised. Pensioners with nothing else to do and a sense of entitlement. Some very unpleasant people out there in the hills!

 

[FlyingGoose]

I truly feel sorry for those outside Scotland, the land should be free to roam and enjoy , responsibly.