Deposit

[jfm]

It doesn’t as I’ve explained. It’s disappointing that you’re unable to grasp it but I can live with your ignorance just as happily as you seem to.

I can't see your explanation. I can see your response to my "lying" point in your post #130, and was able to grasp it thanks, but it wasn't an explanation in my book. It involved an assumption made by you that others have said is absurd and I agree with them. Oh and thanks for the "ignorance" thing - not really needed and I won't stoop to responding.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

No need to go past the 18th word IF in regards breach of contract as we do not know the details of the contract which certainly existed even if it was a scam because there was a declaration to sell regardless of intent.

 

[ari]

So that night I phoned the bank and told the story and they stopped / sucked back the €200 from the Fr Gov account .
It was a DD card so this might be a crucial difference here ?
After the call we packed up and skipped town driving to Italy ( ferry back was Zebrugge ) so avoided Fr .

Point is the money went to the right account from mine .

I felt defrauded by the UNEQUAL treatment .Not the actual “crime “

Bank listened and recovered it . This was 1992 .

Just when you think that this thread can't get any more surreal!

 

[ari]

But your plan still involves lying to the bank lustyd, by telling them you suspect the money went to the wrong place. There is no dispute in OP's situation about the bank transfer per se.

It doesn’t as I’ve explained. It’s disappointing that you’re unable to grasp it but I can live with your ignorance just as happily as you seem to.

You're new here, aren't you?

 

[westernman]

In the early 90 s after a jet ski race from Marseille to st Tropez , we rested up in Cannes .I enquired about a safe place to launch to various marina capitainerie , had insurance etc .They just said here and pointed to cap California off Cannes .

Wife sat ashore on the mole reading a book …off I went .
About an hr later a gun boat came in to to little port towing my Seadoo .I was down below cuffed up .

They arrested me a gun point between the island and shore for speeding .

When berthed forced me to pay a €200 fine by debit card .

Police turned up threatening to send me to a magistrate court in the morning if I did not pay .Although lost in translation it might have been present myself in court in the morning .It’s a long time ago and memory fades ?

So wife ( had cards in her bag ) stumped up .

The sign showing the speeds in which zones was vandalised lying face down in the car park .

As the cops were dealing with me a Fr plated white van rocked up and three guys unloaded stand up skis ….subsequently launched and bombed around ( have to speed up to stand up ) in the very same space / area I was “ done “ .This was after working hrs by now the gun boat had tied up and the crew gone home leaving me arguing with the cops .
I did gesture to the cops, pointing at these other guys and they just shrugged there shoulders and drove off while wife + I were recovering our jet ski .

That night I felt pretty pissed off .

I took charts to 3 capitainere . No one said anything about speed limits .Ok it’s my responsibility to seek them .
The sign was face down and car wheel parked over it .
But what triggered the real anger was the different treatment of me ( a Brit ) to the local guys by the police .

So that night I phoned the bank and told the story and they stopped / sucked back the €200 from the Fr Gov account .
It was a DD card so this might be a crucial difference here ?
After the call we packed up and skipped town driving to Italy ( ferry back was Zebrugge ) so avoided Fr .

Point is the money went to the right account from mine .

I felt defrauded by the UNEQUAL treatment .Not the actual “crime “

Bank listened and recovered it . This was 1992 .

If the sign was up and I ignored it then fair cop .If the other three locals were fined as well then again fair cop .
There was nothing on the new charts and no one in any marina office when fingering the launch point said anything about speed limits .

Huge difference.

You paid with a Credit/Debit card. You can (almost?) always claw back credit/debit card debits just by asking.

If you asked your bank to wire money somewhere and they did, you cannot claw it back except in a very very few special circumstances. Having an argument over a sales contract is certainly not one of them.

 

[Irish Rover]

This thread is classic gold. A couple of heavyweight sluggers v Steve Silvermint. I'll be nominating the OP as YBW Poster of the Year.

 

[lustyd]

Huge difference.

You paid with a Credit/Debit card. You can (almost?) always claw back credit/debit card debits just by asking.

If you asked your bank to wire money somewhere and they did, you cannot claw it back except in a very very few special circumstances. Having an argument over a sales contract is certainly not one of them.

It’s just credit cards. Debit is pretty similar to cash transfer albeit usually used in a different way.

 

[lustyd]

If you asked your bank to wire money somewhere and they did, you cannot claw it back except in a very very few special circumstances. Having an argument over a sales contract is certainly not one of them.

Nobody at all has claimed it was. Have a read of the thread.

 

[westernman]

It’s just credit cards. Debit is pretty similar to cash transfer albeit usually used in a different way.

For mainstream debit and credit cards (i.e. basically those with a Visa or Mastercard logo on them), there is no difference with respect to being able to reverse a debit.

The biggest difference is that a company cannot block/reserve a certain amount of money on a debit card (for example for a rental car deposit) without paying the full transaction fee and without it actually being debited (and the transaction fee to recredit the deposit) . With a credit card, it will be deducted from your credit limit, but will not be debited from your account. I think there are no fees for the rental car company to do this (or at least they are considerably less).

This is why a rental car company wants a credit card rather than a debit card. Also if you insist of using your debit card for the deposit, it will be deducted from your bank account - normally immediately (although I have a debit card with a deferred debit which further blurrs the differences).

 

[benjenbav]

But your plan still involves lying to the bank lustyd, by telling them you suspect the money went to the wrong place. There is no dispute in OP's situation about the bank transfer per se.

Indeed. Also banks (well, the one I use for day-to-day stuff does, at least) now provide the facility for the payer to verify that the payee account name and number match the details the payee bank holds. I’m not sure they’d allow a transfer to be keyed if you disregard this step (I haven’t tried). Difficult after that process to honestly or without appearing reckless to say the money hasn’t been sent where I intended.

 

[KevinV]

Wow, 170 posts, about 150 of which are bickering amongst ourselves.
Time we all got back on the water methinks

 

[lustyd]

there is no difference with respect to being able to reverse a debit.

Being able to no, being obliged to yes. They are also able to reverse direct payments, it’s just a ledger.

 

[lustyd]

Indeed. Also banks (well, the one I use for day-to-day stuff does, at least) now provide the facility for the payer to verify that the payee account name and number match the details the payee bank holds. I’m not sure they’d allow a transfer to be keyed if you disregard this step (I haven’t tried). Difficult after that process to honestly or without appearing reckless to say the money hasn’t been sent where I intended.

It’s a requirement of the new banking regs so should be all banks by now. You can also view your accounts from many different apps not just the one from your bank.

Yes it is harder to do wrong but not impossible and banks still very much do like potential fraud and scams being reported early.

It’s also hard but not impossible to take money and close an account then disappear. Times have changed greatly.

Money laundering using banks is now much harder too, hence the rise of nail bars and phone repair shops.

 

[Irish Rover]

Wow, 170 posts, about 150 of which are bickering amongst ourselves.
Time we all got back on the water methinks

Or start a new best anchor thread

 

[Portofino]

For mainstream debit and credit cards (i.e. basically those with a Visa or Mastercard logo on them), there is no difference with respect to being able to reverse a debit.

The biggest difference is that a company cannot block/reserve a certain amount of money on a debit card (for example for a rental car deposit) without paying the full transaction fee and without it actually being debited (and the transaction fee to recredit the deposit) . With a credit card, it will be deducted from your credit limit, but will not be debited from your account. I think there are no fees for the rental car company to do this (or at least they are considerably less).

This is why a rental car company wants a credit card rather than a debit card. Also if you insist of using your debit card for the deposit, it will be deducted from your bank account - normally immediately (although I have a debit card with a deferred debit which further blurrs the differences).

They didn’t want the credit card , either cash or debit .They issued a receipt

 

[Portofino]

For mainstream debit and credit cards (i.e. basically those with a Visa or Mastercard logo on them), there is no difference with respect to being able to reverse a debit.

The biggest difference is that a company cannot block/reserve a certain amount of money on a debit card (for example for a rental car deposit) without paying the full transaction fee and without it actually being debited (and the transaction fee to recredit the deposit) . With a credit card, it will be deducted from your credit limit, but will not be debited from your account. I think there are no fees for the rental car company to do this (or at least they are considerably less).

This is why a rental car company wants a credit card rather than a debit card. Also if you insist of using your debit card for the deposit, it will be deducted from your bank account - normally immediately (although I have a debit card with a deferred debit which further blurrs the differences).

They didn’t want the credit card , either cash or debit .They issued a receipt .

I spoked direct to a personal manager at the bank .Not to a 3 p intermediary card Co representative.

 

[Portofino]

Indeed. Also banks (well, the one I use for day-to-day stuff does, at least) now provide the facility for the payer to verify that the payee account name and number match the details the payee bank holds. I’m not sure they’d allow a transfer to be keyed if you disregard this step (I haven’t tried). Difficult after that process to honestly or without appearing reckless to say the money hasn’t been sent where I intended.

Everyone’s in agreement ( I think ? ) the £500 has been sent to the “intended “ place .

It’s just can a sympathetic bank reverse it out ? .Rare I know but not impossible.

Worth the op trying and once that Avenue is closed go down the small claims route .

The boots then on the the foot as it’s then the seller who has to chase the op for the £500 …..by legal redress / argument.
If he has an argument?

Of course we have only partially heard one side .

 

[SC35]

The biggest difference is that a company cannot block/reserve a certain amount of money on a debit card (for example for a rental car deposit) without paying the full transaction fee and without it actually being debited (and the transaction fee to recredit the deposit) . With a credit card, it will be deducted from your credit limit, but will not be debited from your account. I think there are no fees for the rental car company to do this (or at least they are considerably less).

It's possible to issue Authorization Hold / Pre-Auth on certain types of debit card (but not all).

 

[Tranona]

No need to go past the 18th word IF in regards breach of contract as we do not know the details of the contract which certainly existed even if it was a scam because there was a declaration to sell regardless of intent.

You don't need to know the "details" of the contract. You only need to know the "facts" to determine if a contract exists then whether there has been a breach. The information given by the OP, if it is true, is enough to satisfy both. This has been explained several times.

A read of this may help juro.com/learn/contract-elements-requirements to understand the nature of contracts and this investopedia.com/terms/b/breach-of-contract.asp explains what constitutes a breach.

Apply these tests and you will come to the same conclusion as I did.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

You don't need to know the "details" of the contract. You only need to know the "facts" to determine if a contract exists then whether there has been a breach. The information given by the OP, if it is true, is enough to satisfy both. This has been explained several times.

A read of this may help juro.com/learn/contract-elements-requirements to understand the nature of contracts and this investopedia.com/terms/b/breach-of-contract.asp explains what constitutes a breach.

Apply these tests and you will come to the same conclusion as I did.

Again you use the word IF to justify your assumption. I agree with you IF what the OP has told us is true and complete then a contract existed and there has been a Breach but there is another interpretation that is equally valid and also made on an assumption.

I have in the past a modest involvement in contract law both personally occasionally referred to on here but also professionally in constructing them and scrutinising them with and or prior to submission to a contract specialist lawyer ( mainly supply and purchase contracts)