Deposit

[PlanB]

As someone else has said, your best course of action would be small claims court. If you don't have the required information to submit an online claim, it's unlikely you have enough information for any other (legal) remedy.

 

[DavidJ]

I’m assuming that you are too light on evidence for successful legal system small claims, but you have a name and address. Never done it but I’ve heard that there are online solicitors who can write a ‘suitable’ letter which might be just enough to prompt some action.

 

[ashtead]

It would seem based on scant evidence that a letter requesting return of deposit within say14 days if this hasn’t already been sent and then county court summons. The defendant might have some form of defence of course which is unknown to us for example completion of sale was due within certain timescale which the OP failed to meet. Anyway given the OP has had no response to return request a punt at the lottery of small claims might elicit at least an offer. The risk is even with a judgement the costs of enforcement then arise etc. I would have thought some research into the potential defendants means might be wise . It does strike me as odd that anyone would pay a £500 deposit without having any form of contract in what is an online marketplace .

 

[Davy_S]

Exactly, i bought and paid for a book on marketplace, it was entitled how to scam people, it has still not arrived three months later!

 

[jfm]

You could attempt to legally put a lien on the boat but you would need to take legal advice. The key point will be do you have any proof that the £500 deposit you paid related to the boat purchase, the seller could simply counterclaim that it was a personal debt that you paid.

You absolutely cannot "put a lien" on the boat. There is no law whatsoever permitting that. And nor should there be, in any sensible country.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

You absolutely cannot "put a lien" on the boat. There is no law whatsoever permitting that. And nor should there be, in any sensible country.

I said you could try and take advice, if there is a pre existing contract that is valid then the sale and be put on hold via a lien.

 

[Minerva]

Exactly, i bought and paid for a book on marketplace, it was entitled how to scam people, it has still not arrived three months later!

I’ve got the follow up book for sale if you’re interested? It’s on how to be less gullible? Good read!

 

[jfm]

It would seem based on scant evidence that a letter requesting return of deposit within say14 days if this hasn’t already been sent and then county court summons. The defendant might have some form of defence of course which is unknown to us for example completion of sale was due within certain timescale which the OP failed to meet. Anyway given the OP has had no response to return request a punt at the lottery of small claims might elicit at least an offer. The risk is even with a judgement the costs of enforcement then arise etc. I would have thought some research into the potential defendants means might be wise . It does strike me as odd that anyone would pay a £500 deposit without having any form of contract in what is an online marketplace .

Agree that. It's a gamble and it goes like this:

1. Send a letter warning legal action - cost is zero. Should be well written - legally folks on here can easily help
2. Next file a claim in country court (small claims track) -costs about £80 depending where you live
3. Then you have a possibility he will pay (great) or will no-show (great, because you win automatically. Third possibility is that he defends the claim, and while this case is a bit light on evidence it isn't terrible: there is a provable online ad, bank transfer, and the phone records of chasing the guy, and OP's own witness statement (again must be well written). That is pretty ok-ish evidence

So you might win on any of those 3 scenarios
.
Whether he pays after a court win depends on whether he is a decent guy and whether he cares about the CCJ that he will get if he doesn't pay - he will never get a credit card or loan again for next several years, so he should care about it.

So this is a decent strategy. Costs £80, which you get back if successful, but its quite a useful life lesson perhaps worth £80 to see how well the process works.

 

[jfm]

I said you could try and take advice, if there is a pre existing contract that is valid then the sale and be put on hold via a lien.

OK I realise you don't believe me. But so that this forum contains correct info for anyone else reading it, you are completely and utterly incorrect (for English law, and plenty of other countries that largely follow English law).

You cannot get a lien (or anything similar like an arrest of the boat) in the circumstances under discussion here - absolutely zero, nil, nada possibility. Under either the general law or maritime law. Nor should you be able to, in any rational legal system.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

OK I realise you don't believe me. But so that this forum contains correct info for anyone else reading it, you are completely and utterly incorrect (for English law, and plenty of other countries that largely follow English law).

You cannot get a lien (or anything similar like an arrest of the boat) in the circumstances under discussion here - absolutely zero, nil, nada possibility. Under either the general law or maritime law. Nor should you be able to, in any rational legal system.

Explain why,

 

[westernman]

Explain why,

Under English law there are only 3 types of claims that give Maritime Liens: Salvage; Crew Wages; Damage done by a ship (contrast that with the USA where all maritime claims give rise to a maritime lien).

 

[colhel]

Face book , market place

I think whoever you contacted didn't own the boat. He stole £500 from you and now he's moving to his next victim. Facebook need to get a grip on their site as the unweary can easily get caught out.
Out of interest, what was the boat and asking price?

 

[Fr J Hackett]

Under English law there are only 3 types of claims that give Maritime Liens: Salvage; Crew Wages; Damage done by a ship (contrast that with the USA where all maritime claims give rise to a maritime lien).

When I sold a boat and was in dispute with the marina owners over their claim for for brokerage, I received a letter from a law firm threatening to put a lien on the boat and stop the sale. I was forced to pay under duress and proceed with the sale. I contested in the small claims court and won my case. Now I don't know whether the threat carried any weight but it was fro a London legal firm.

 

[EugeneR]

Good thread to learn from, thanks all (well, most...)

 

[westernman]

When I sold a boat and was in dispute with the marina owners over their claim for for brokerage, I received a letter from a law firm threatening to put a lien on the boat and stop the sale. I was forced to pay under duress and proceed with the sale. I contested in the small claims court and won my case. Now I don't know whether the threat carried any weight but it was fro a London legal firm.

Boat in the UK or somewhere else?

In France, if a court is convinced that there really is a debt from the owner of the boat to some one, then the boat can have a kind of lien put on it. But the UK is much more restrictive. Also, whether this can be done might depend on the flag state of the boat as well as the location of the boat.

 

[Tranona]

When I sold a boat and was in dispute with the marina owners over their claim for for brokerage, I received a letter from a law firm threatening to put a lien on the boat and stop the sale. I was forced to pay under duress and proceed with the sale. I contested in the small claims court and won my case. Now I don't know whether the threat carried any weight but it was fro a London legal firm.

That is likely because you were being sued for breach of the berthing contract for your boat. Very different situation from what seems to be going on here. The berthing contract would have had a term that allowed them to make a charge against the boat for unpaid fees, but would have to go to court to get it - hence the lawyer's threat.

Note John's qualification in his observation in post#49

 

[jfm]

Explain why,

No I won't, especially without a "please". I know my onions when it comes to legal stuff, and drive an 8 digit boat on the proceeds. Feel free to press on thinking I'm wrong - I don't have any reason to care, so long as the correct answer is somewhere on the thread and the incorrect stuff is called out

When I sold a boat and was in dispute with the marina owners over their claim for for brokerage, I received a letter from a law firm threatening to put a lien on the boat and stop the sale. I was forced to pay under duress and proceed with the sale. I contested in the small claims court and won my case. Now I don't know whether the threat carried any weight but it was fro a London legal firm.

That's a completely different fact pattern. I don't know what country you're talking about and this thread concerns a UK situation, and my posts have consistently said UK law, Applying UK law, the marina already had lawful possession of your boat and THAT allowed them to put a lien on it, even if eventually you won the case and they were proved wrong in their debt claim (but not in their lien). In this case, OP does not have lawful possession of the boat and for that exact reason he cannot put a general law lien on it. And for the reasons Westerman correctly states above, he may not have a maritime lien either.

The devil is in the detail and you just don't know what you're talking about. Feel free to post of course; I just want to make clear that you're 100% wrong, and then we're all good.

 

[jfm]

That is likely because you were being sued for breach of the berthing contract for your boat. Very different situation from what seems to be going on here. The berthing contract would have had a term that allowed them to make a charge against the boat for unpaid fees, but would have to go to court to get it - hence the lawyer's threat.

Note John's qualification in his observation in post#49

Hi Tranona, critical thing is marina already had lawful possession. They may have had a contract term too, but the pre-existing lawful possession is the big point. Once you already have lawful possession, you're in a strong position to get a lien. If you don't have lawful possession, and you don't qualify for maritime lien (see Westerman's very correct #51), you're not gonna have a lien.

Of course there is tons more detail and one would write pages and pages, but this is the essence of the topic.

 

[lustyd]

The obvious answer would be contact your bank and explain that your money didn’t reach the intended recipient. They will then raise a dispute which would force the vendor to either return the money or commit fraud. At that point it becomes a criminal matter.

 

[Fr J Hackett]

No I won't, especially without a "please". I know my onions when it comes to legal stuff, and drive an 8 digit boat on the proceeds. Feel free to press on thinking I'm wrong - I don't have any reason to care, so long as the correct answer is somewhere on the thread and the incorrect stuff is called out


That's a completely different fact pattern. I don't know what country you're talking about and this thread concerns a UK situation, and my posts have consistently said UK law, Applying UK law, the marina already had lawful possession of your boat and THAT allowed them to put a lien on it, even if eventually you won the case and they were proved wrong in their debt claim (but not in their lien). In this case, OP does not have lawful possession of the boat and for that exact reason he cannot put a general law lien on it. And for the reasons Westerman correctly states above, he may not have a maritime lien either.

The devil is in the detail and you just don't know what you're talking about. Feel free to post of course; I just want to make clear that you're 100% wrong, and then we're all good.

Thanks for the explanation but going back to my post I did say that it would require a legal opinion which you have given.