Dealing with insurers following mishap?

[mriley]

My boat (27ft motor boat) was secured to its UK South Coast marina pontoon the other night when a mishap occurred involving a large commercial vessel under way/making way. The resulting damage to my boat was extensive, and I had it hauled out for inspection/repairs.

A representative of the other vessels owners (a French company) has contacted me and asked for me, or my insurers, to meet with him to carry out a joint inspection of my boat, as (apparently) required by French law.

My own insurance company have sent me a claim form, but have told me that as the other vessel appears to be at fault, then I should claim from its insurers, and they are clearly taking steps to minimise their involvement. If I do claim through them, they say I will lose my excess (£750) and NCB.

This is my first incident involving marine insurance - I had expected the process to be similar to car insurance, where you claim from your own insurance company regardless of who appears to be at fault.

I would welcome any advice from anyone who has been through this process - any pitfalls to avoid? I am not going to be able to afford legal representation, hopefully it won't be needed. I would also hope to be able to claim cost of haulout/relaunch, and storage ashore for the duration.

Thank you

 

[theoldsalt]

....... I had expected the process to be similar to car insurance, where you claim from your own insurance company regardless of who appears to be at fault.......

Never heard of that before !!!
Why would you claim on your own insurance if you are blaimless? Inform your insurance company - yes, it is a condition of the insurance. But write to the other party stating clearly you hold them wholly to blame with a copy of the repair costs.

 

[Aeolus]

I had a much smaller problem when the boat next to me in the marina came loose and caused a couple of dinks and scratches. I spoke to my insurers and they said the same thing - that I should claim from the owner of the other boat. Incidentally, you're not claiming from the other boat's insurers - you should be claiming from the owners and they can then involve their insurers on their behalf. And no, it isn't like car insurance - the marine insurers don't have the various mutual agreements that enable car insurers to co-operate. You should submit a claim to the boat's owners for the full value of your loss including the cost of employing your own surveyor to assess the damage. If they dispute the claim and you have to take legal advice, you would add the cost of that advice to your claim. If they ask that the damage survey should be a joint exercise, then you could show goodwill and agree on the basis that you will choose the surveyor/assessor and you and they will share the initial cost (so that the surveyor owes a duty to both parties) but that you will claim your share as part of the damages when they are finally settled. However you are not obliged to show this goodwill if the other party tries to be obstructive.

BTW, I'm not a lawyer so don't take this as gospel but I think it is pretty much correct.

p.s. the last thing you want to be doing is taking them to court - it will be expensive and risky and slow, so as long as they are being reasonable, you should be likewise. However you are entitled to be restored to a financial situation as if the accident hadn't happened so you are entitled to claim all costs that are reasonably attributable to the accident.

 

[Plevier]

Does your insurance include legal expenses?
If so you should be able to use that to pursue the claim against the other party, suggest involving them straight away.

 

[dom]

A representative of the other vessels owners (a French company) has contacted me and asked for me, or my insurers, to meet with him to carry out a joint inspection of my boat, as (apparently) required by French law.

I can see no reason why not to meet them to discuss the nature and extent of the damage; naturally keep your insurance company in the loop even if you don't have cover for legal costs. Include in your claim the cost of a pre- and post-repair survey; the pre-repair one to form the basis of a detailed schedule of remedial work, and the post-repair one to help you re-insure the boat next year.

In the meantime take plenty of photographs, before and after ones would be great.

 

[knuterikt]

My boat (27ft motor boat) was secured to its UK South Coast marina pontoon the other night when a mishap occurred involving a large commercial vessel under way/making way. The resulting damage to my boat was extensive, and I had it hauled out for inspection/repairs.

A representative of the other vessels owners (a French company) has contacted me and asked for me, or my insurers, to meet with him to carry out a joint inspection of my boat, as (apparently) required by French law.

My own insurance company have sent me a claim form, but have told me that as the other vessel appears to be at fault, then I should claim from its insurers, and they are clearly taking steps to minimise their involvement. If I do claim through them, they say I will lose my excess (£750) and NCB.

This is my first incident involving marine insurance - I had expected the process to be similar to car insurance, where you claim from your own insurance company regardless of who appears to be at fault.

I would welcome any advice from anyone who has been through this process - any pitfalls to avoid? I am not going to be able to afford legal representation, hopefully it won't be needed. I would also hope to be able to claim cost of haulout/relaunch, and storage ashore for the duration.

Thank you

Different insurance companies different ways. Some say that insurance have two prices before and after the accident..

First of all you need to make sure that there are a good surveyor present at the inspection.
Ask the representative of the other vessels owners if you can choose surveyor or at least check his references before the meeting.
Check with you insurance company if they can recommend a surveyor or know the other party's surveyor.

A good surveyor should be able to help find a repair yard and help deciding in the best solution.

I had a damage to my boat at my marina while setting up for winter storage some years back.
My insurance sorted out everything for me without any cost. The bill was payed by the marinas insurance.

 

[sailorman]

My boat (27ft motor boat) was secured to its UK South Coast marina pontoon the other night when a mishap occurred involving a large commercial vessel under way/making way. The resulting damage to my boat was extensive, and I had it hauled out for inspection/repairs.

A representative of the other vessels owners (a French company) has contacted me and asked for me, or my insurers, to meet with him to carry out a joint inspection of my boat, as (apparently) required by French law.

My own insurance company have sent me a claim form, but have told me that as the other vessel appears to be at fault, then I should claim from its insurers, and they are clearly taking steps to minimise their involvement. If I do claim through them, they say I will lose my excess (£750) and NCB.

This is my first incident involving marine insurance - I had expected the process to be similar to car insurance, where you claim from your own insurance company regardless of who appears to be at fault.

I would welcome any advice from anyone who has been through this process - any pitfalls to avoid? I am not going to be able to afford legal representation, hopefully it won't be needed. I would also hope to be able to claim cost of haulout/relaunch, and storage ashore for the duration.

Thank you

Claim on your insurer, let them sort it out. Keep a comprehensive list of your "uninsured" losses. That is why you have insurance.

 

[Bilgediver]

My boat (27ft motor boat) was secured to its UK South Coast marina pontoon the other night when a mishap occurred involving a large commercial vessel under way/making way. The resulting damage to my boat was extensive, and I had it hauled out for inspection/repairs.

A representative of the other vessels owners (a French company) has contacted me and asked for me, or my insurers, to meet with him to carry out a joint inspection of my boat, as (apparently) required by French law.

My own insurance company have sent me a claim form, but have told me that as the other vessel appears to be at fault, then I should claim from its insurers, and they are clearly taking steps to minimise their involvement. If I do claim through them, they say I will lose my excess (£750) and NCB.

This is my first incident involving marine insurance - I had expected the process to be similar to car insurance, where you claim from your own insurance company regardless of who appears to be at fault.

I would welcome any advice from anyone who has been through this process - any pitfalls to avoid? I am not going to be able to afford legal representation, hopefully it won't be needed. I would also hope to be able to claim cost of haulout/relaunch, and storage ashore for the duration.

Thank you

Do as the owners of the other ship have requested and also take along a Marine Surveyor to the meeting . In the big ship world there are plenty of surveyors who specialise in this work but a boat surveyor should be able to confirm the extent of the damage and repair costs to your boat. Doubt if it warrants The Salvage Association being involved

http://www.braemarsa.com/about-us/about-us/

 

[Rigger Mortice]

I can't see what French law has to do with an accident happening in UK waters but, in any event, I would be cautious about having a joint meeting before my own surveyor and/or boatyard had had an opportunity to fully assess the damage. Once that had happened I would have no problem with the other side being given the opportunity to view the damage but I would agree absolutely nothing at such a meeting unless I had my own experts on hand during the meeting.

 

[Stork_III]

If you have insured with one of the good insurers like mine, a claim for damage does not lose you your excess or NCB for claims when berthed in a marina or ashore.

 

[sailorman]

My boat (27ft motor boat) was secured to its UK South Coast marina pontoon the other night when a mishap occurred involving a large commercial vessel under way/making way. The resulting damage to my boat was extensive, and I had it hauled out for inspection/repairs.

A representative of the other vessels owners (a French company) has contacted me and asked for me, or my insurers, to meet with him to carry out a joint inspection of my boat, as (apparently) required by French law.

My own insurance company have sent me a claim form, but have told me that as the other vessel appears to be at fault, then I should claim from its insurers, and they are clearly taking steps to minimise their involvement. If I do claim through them, they say I will lose my excess (£750) and NCB.

This is my first incident involving marine insurance - I had expected the process to be similar to car insurance, where you claim from your own insurance company regardless of who appears to be at fault.

I would welcome any advice from anyone who has been through this process - any pitfalls to avoid? I am not going to be able to afford legal representation, hopefully it won't be needed. I would also hope to be able to claim cost of haulout/relaunch, and storage ashore for the duration.

Thank you

Who are your insurers

 

[clyst]

A visitor crashed into my boat last year whilst in its marina berth . I just contacted my insurance ( Saga) with the name of the third partys insurance and they did the rest no problem . I didn't lose any NCB or excess cos the boat was in its berth.

 

[itchenseadog]

The incident happened in the UK therefore UK law applies.
Who are your insurers?
Get your insurers to appoint a specialist insurance surveyor such as BG&A Marine Surveyors 01489 581999 or 07802 605623 to act on your behalf.

 

[wotayottie]

I wouldnt think twice but claim on my own insurance. Claiming across borders in a foreign language would be a nightmare - been there, done that and lost albeit that was south america. Never mind the rights and wrongs. Think practical.

 

[macd]

If you have insured with one of the good insurers like mine, a claim for damage does not lose you your excess or NCB for claims when berthed in a marina or ashore.

Much the same in my case with Bishop Skinner, described in the policy as something like "notified winter berth". (This is usually a different location every year.)
In any case I'd certainly put my losses through my insurer in the first instance.* In the OP's case fault might be clear, but that is often not the case. And in either event, there are always mavericks who will try to argue that black is white.

* Obviously I have no idea of the small print of the French vessel's policy, but know that my own (like a car policy) specifically proscribes my admitting fault. So the fact that the French vessel has admitted liability should be neither here nor there. I find the response of the OP's insurer very strange.

 

[akyaka]

If you have insured with one of the good insurers like mine, a claim for damage does not lose you your excess or NCB for claims when berthed in a marina or ashore.

+1 .my insurers dealt with the other parties insurers . The laws of the sea are a very specialist area of law and do not necessarily follow the same logic as eg road traffic accidents as I found out when a boat dragged its mooring and collided with me - a court of arbitration found that each party had to pay its own costs.

 

[philip_stevens]

My boat (27ft motor boat) was secured to its UK South Coast marina pontoon the other night when a mishap occurred involving a large commercial vessel under way/making way. The resulting damage to my boat was extensive, and I had it hauled out for inspection/repairs.

You give your location as Portsmouth. Was the marina within Portsmouth harbour? Was the commercial vessel under pilotage?

If within Portsmouth harbour and under pilotage, then surely, the Portsmouth Pilots should be responsible for insurance cover.

Have you got Legal Cover on your insurance policy - as with car insurance?

Contact the RYA and ask for their advice. They have lawyers who know what they are talking about - we had one give us a talk at the recent WOA AGM.

 

[GrahamM376]

We've been hit twice on our home moorings. First time we were insured via Nautical and they processed successful claim against the other insured party, no loss of NCB and excess recovered. Second time insured with Towergate. Uninsured passenger ferry hit us and Towergate had a surveyor here within 48 hours, paid my claim in full including £250 excess via legal protection policy and no loss of NCB as we were on home mooring.

 

[ripvan1]

If this is the accident that occurred last week, am I right in assuming that the MOD are involved to a certain degree and there were several boats damaged and one sunk along with a pontoon?

I've been scanning the news site and cannot find anything, anyone got any links?

 

[jfm]

Contrary to much of the above I would say generally claim from your own insurer, but cannot be sure about that unless you post a policy link. The wording of marine insurance policies varies quite a lot, so it is pretty important that you post a link.

You are not required to abide by French law when not in France. Your claim against will be a tortious claim under English law so they can get lost with any demands made because "required by French law", and you might want to tell them that in any reply. The only function THEIR surveyor will perform at this proposed inspection will be to REDUCE your claim, so refuse to let him attend. Have your surveyor report to you on the boat if a surveyor is needed, and check before you hire your surveyor that he understands CPR part 35 and will, if you later ask him to, know how to prepare a court report under Part 35. (Part 35 is the set of rules applicable to expert witnesses in UK court proceedings). Hopefully it wont come to that but you might as well use a surveyor who is "tooled up" in case it does. Fortunately, many of them are

It's hard to say more without a load more detail, tbh