Adrian
Well-Known Member
"Here you go...
http://www.ionianislandholidays.com/island-info.php"
:encouragement:
http://www.ionianislandholidays.com/island-info.php"
:encouragement:
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Crossed anchor advice - Fiskardo
- Thread starter Cardo
- Start date
tedgorton
Active Member
if only Tassia's pontoon were really hers. I was there a few days ago and heard that there is a s**t-fight going on over who will pay tor repair the pontoon, which seems to get dislodged and messed up every winter.
agree fiskardo is totally inappropriate as a place to lock up your boat and go away during the season. The quay does a dogleg in front of Vasso's and there is no way not to cross and be crossed, making everybody cross in the morning. and providing great entertainment to those who stay on deck with mug in hand watching the festivities. last week we crossed one and were crossed by two, leaving was a nightmare but my anchor-chain-uncrossing gadget (it has a technical name), an aluminium "C" with a line and a trip-line, worked like a dream. that's 3 times this season, best £7 I ever spent.
agree fiskardo is totally inappropriate as a place to lock up your boat and go away during the season. The quay does a dogleg in front of Vasso's and there is no way not to cross and be crossed, making everybody cross in the morning. and providing great entertainment to those who stay on deck with mug in hand watching the festivities. last week we crossed one and were crossed by two, leaving was a nightmare but my anchor-chain-uncrossing gadget (it has a technical name), an aluminium "C" with a line and a trip-line, worked like a dream. that's 3 times this season, best £7 I ever spent.
Cardo
Well-Known Member
We have since left Fiskardo, though we are now back up in the neighbourhood, anchored up in the lovely bay with the beach just to the south. Popped into town today and noticed the locked up boat, called Vega, is still flopping about. Looks like the chap in the rib straightened her anchor so she's away from the quay, but she's still lying at an awful angle when there isn't a neighbour to straighten her out.
But it's cool, I understand the PP are keeping themselves busy by telling the local businesses they can't have "No mooring" signs on the quay where they normally keep their boats. Glad to see they're dealing with the real problems.
We spent a couple of days down in Ag. Eufimia. Anchored to begin with, but then spent a night in the "marina" to top up the batteries and run the watermaker. I've decided I'm not particularly keen on their harbour staff there. They're far too bossy for their own good, telling boat skippers and crew what to do. They managed, through their own instructions, to moor up a boat next to us, impressively crossing their chain with ours. Had the skipper been left to his own devices (it was a liveaboard), he probably would've been ok. Also, the harbour staff need to stfu, I was not impressed when they kept shouting instructions at my crew member (SWMBO), going against what I had already told her to do. Crew member ended up getting some feedback after we'd left, about who is the boss and who is to be listened to in these situations. I can appreciate these guys telling clueless charterers what to do, but when a private skipper is doing his thing, they need to go back to simply taking lines and money.
But it's cool, I understand the PP are keeping themselves busy by telling the local businesses they can't have "No mooring" signs on the quay where they normally keep their boats. Glad to see they're dealing with the real problems.
We spent a couple of days down in Ag. Eufimia. Anchored to begin with, but then spent a night in the "marina" to top up the batteries and run the watermaker. I've decided I'm not particularly keen on their harbour staff there. They're far too bossy for their own good, telling boat skippers and crew what to do. They managed, through their own instructions, to moor up a boat next to us, impressively crossing their chain with ours. Had the skipper been left to his own devices (it was a liveaboard), he probably would've been ok. Also, the harbour staff need to stfu, I was not impressed when they kept shouting instructions at my crew member (SWMBO), going against what I had already told her to do. Crew member ended up getting some feedback after we'd left, about who is the boss and who is to be listened to in these situations. I can appreciate these guys telling clueless charterers what to do, but when a private skipper is doing his thing, they need to go back to simply taking lines and money.
Steve C Cronin
N/A
Well, if you insist on having 50 metres of rope lurking just below the surface. no wonder unsuspecting arrivers snag it. If I ever get your selfishly positioned rope around my prop, Charles, expect it to get cut! Chain always lies sufficiently lower to be safe. IMO bows-to on rope = a "boat bum" and subsequent experience of the crews of suchlike moored vessels, usually proves me right.
Jamesuk
Well-Known Member
~Get the divers to sort it out - to them it will be fun. St Barths its big business for the divers crossing anchor chains.
Steve C Cronin
N/A
That's in the "Windies" I assume? How much do they charge? In Greece the going rate is €50.
Jamesuk
Well-Known Member
By the meter and the boats asking lay out two anchors and are usually around 120ft plus ;-)
charles_reed
Well-Known Member
As usual your assumptions, Steve, make a fool of you.
You might not be aware but not all rope floats - and I usually only have the chain out.
If you do make a habit of cutting other peoples' warps, I fear for your future good health.
Steve C Cronin
N/A
The curve of a rope's catenary is very shallow indeed compared to that of a chain. Therefore the rope will always stay much higher in the water along it's length than will a chain, except in severe conditions, where th difference is reduced. A rope, also, once snagged will stay with you and get tangled much more easily than will a chain, which will always tr to drop away. I thought you would have known that?
People on rope are treated as pariahs* by the mainstay of sensible yachtsmen. I thought you would also be aware of that! (Or, are they all foolish too?)
*- they tend to wear brown leather sandals too!
"A habit"? No, hardly likely since MOST yachtsmen are sensible and don't deliberately put underwater hazards in the way of their neighbours.
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rivonia
Well-Known Member
So self righteous. What a load of BULL****
Steve C Cronin
N/A
If you've ever been forced to remain in a harbour because your downwind neighbour had a long rode of rope stretching way out into the harbour, you wouldn't say that!
jimbaerselman
Well-Known Member
You've made three interesting assumptions here. The first is that yachtsmen do not expect shallow ropes to be a hazard near moored boats on a Greek quayside. The second is that shallow ropes are more hazardous than shallow chains. And third is that those who use ropes do not take precautions to keep them below the level of passing boats.
Let's assume there's a row of boats, some stern to, and some bows to, on a quayside, and they've all dropped their hooks at similar distances from the shore. In this case, it is likely that the stern to boats are using chain, while bows to boats are using rope with some chain.
Stern-to boats will usually lead the chain from a metre above water level through a bow fitting. Bows-to boats will usually lead rope through a deck level fitting some 30cm lower. Rope rode boats with experience of shallower harbours will fit an even lower lead to hook the line under, down to water level, (a) to reduce the angle of pull at the anchor and allow a shorter scope, and (b) to lower the rope below passing pariahs - err - propellers.
They may also slide a heavy chum along the rode to sink the rope further. My redundant 45lb CQR did the job nicely.
So, catenary can be completely irrelevant.
As for passing propellers which don't expect underwater hazards when manoeuvring near quaysides (your mainstay of sensible yachtsmen?), perhaps they should be treated as pariahs, even if they are wearing deck shoes?
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
My god Jim , I'm not sure what text book your are quoting from ,
three quarter of the people in the Ionian don't even know how to lay a anchor let alone how to retrieve it over a pile of chain , as for sinking a stern line I have never seen anyone do it , when I use to teach most people had no idea at all how to anchor , there idea was to drop as much rode as they could then rev at high speed and then wonder why the anchor wasn't holding , or just drop it and hope for the best , nothing seen to have changed since then .So to expect charter or even boat owners to have sunk their rode I think you asking a bit too much . If you don't mind me saying .
In principal , great idea , in reality it very rarely happens .
Any one with half a Brain should expect if boats are moored bow to , there a good chance that line will be just below the water for some mts back
www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com
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Steve C Cronin
N/A
The chain will be lying along the bottom for a good proportion of it's length from the anchor. Rope won't.
Yes, we all expect ropes near Greek quays But when it is one which cannot be avoided and nobody carries a boathook long enough to ensure that it clears a 2metre keel when leaving a busy harbour, a neighbouring, downwind boat's rode is a serious hazard. One only needs to be forward of the neighbour's bow by half a boat length or so for one's rudder to clear a chain. With rope it is likely to be much further.
Unless you leave long before everyone else is awake in the morning, handling and recovering that floppy 45llb CQR as it slides down your rode to your other anchor must be quite a feat of dexterity, not to mention strength! But then YOU enjoy complexity, if I recall, like threading lines across neighbours' boats under their wires, to the quay if a blow threatens!
They Might do MANY things. In MY experience, few do!
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jimbaerselman
Well-Known Member
I wrote the text books for the first Greek charter company to teach complete novices in a week - enough to skipper on flotilla for the second week. Much of the teaching was practicing end-on mooring. And the majority of flotilla boats around the Ionian then used rope/chain rodes, rather than chain (no winches for 8m boats in those early flotilla days). Those guys could moor bows on, single handed, when they went off in charge for the first time.My god Jim , I'm not sure what text book your are quoting from ,
Things have changed - bigger boats, bigger bower anchors, chains, winches, the habit of mooring stern to instead of bows to. That's easier to cock up and needs teamwork. And loads of people charter who have never done end-on. Indeed, a recipe for chaos.
Yes, I agree. I was just pointing out how it can be done - and how I do it when I have the choice. Especially in boats which don't do backwards in a crosswind!
Indeed, some lack imagination. Hence the waterline hook and sinker. Belt and braces. And even more important, very easy to bail out from when there's a serious tangle on the bottom!
charles_reed
Well-Known Member
Vic, not all of us have the misfortune to play in charterer waters - heading up to Croatia you can expect far worse/incompetent behaviour up there than in the Ionian - I always used to leave the popular areas mid-June. Here in the Aegean, we see a lot of very competent anchoring to quays (and some laughable and pathetic tyros).
Steve, in your normal enthusiastic and confused manner you have leapt to conclusions which are so laughably away from the facts..
Scene Fiskardo Quay about 10m S of Tassia's door. My warp goes to 2m under water where it becomes chain, it's bar taut. Next door neighbour, in a catamaran, flexes his voice, revs up to 3000rpm and then tells his wife to start bringing the chain. His starboard prop swallows warp and chain and the engine stops with a horrid clonk.
Why he can't pull himself off using winch is anyone's guess. Fortunately I know the diver who was on the scene in 10', who had to cut away warp and I had to put out another anchor whilst I re-made the chain-to warp splice. It only cost him €50 - he was lucky.
Don't know how much damage it did to the saildrive.
Steve, in your normal enthusiastic and confused manner you have leapt to conclusions which are so laughably away from the facts..
Scene Fiskardo Quay about 10m S of Tassia's door. My warp goes to 2m under water where it becomes chain, it's bar taut. Next door neighbour, in a catamaran, flexes his voice, revs up to 3000rpm and then tells his wife to start bringing the chain. His starboard prop swallows warp and chain and the engine stops with a horrid clonk.
Why he can't pull himself off using winch is anyone's guess. Fortunately I know the diver who was on the scene in 10', who had to cut away warp and I had to put out another anchor whilst I re-made the chain-to warp splice. It only cost him €50 - he was lucky.
Don't know how much damage it did to the saildrive.
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jimbaerselman
Well-Known Member
Recipe to bumping the quay when the wind gets up if you're not aboard.
Another lovely argument for mooring bows to. Your rudder gets out first, less chance of a tangle.
It's easy if you can lift 45lb. Lower hook of CQR over rode using recovery rope. Push it out 3m or so with boat hook. Recover by pulling recovery rope and lift aboard. But this rigmarole is only needed in shallow harbours if the rode has to be pushed down to avoid careless sailors.
Mis-quote. When the big winds come from the beam, and several boats to windward are dragging sideways and starting to bang the quay, you take the pressure off by taking lines to windward any way you can.
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
Charles , to be honest with you IM not sure what going on we turned up in the Ionian late April and right thought to most of May and I found it to be very quiet , both Nelson and Ioniansailing told Me that booking are slow and Ioniansialing said their season this year will start around June , as we sailed up along Corfu using anchorage we have use many times before , we found then to be almost empty , we now been in Croatia for over two weeks and the most boat we have anchored with in a night was last night , five boats in all usually it been one or Two and most night none , Croatia is turning out to be a big surprise to us , nothing like we expected it to be , we expected to be having running battles over anchoring fees , so far there been none , we just had two night in the National park , where we expected to pay , we seen no one . As far as ( far worst incompetent behaviour then the Ionian goes , well maybe I will , in all the year I have sails and it been a lot I never seen stuff go on like I seen in the Ionian .
I also never had so much damage done to my boat as I have had done in the Ionian . more bent stanchion then you can ever believe .
I hope I don't end up eating my words after what I just said about Croatia
www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com
I also never had so much damage done to my boat as I have had done in the Ionian . more bent stanchion then you can ever believe .
I hope I don't end up eating my words after what I just said about Croatia
www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com
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charles_reed
Well-Known Member
N Aegean has seemed quite full, mainly of boats overwintered in Turkey and starting their season. I've been turfed out of two harbours due to military or cruise boats arriving. No bareboat charters yet but plenty of skippered charters mainly out of Kavala and Turkey. UK-flagged vessels in the minority, lots of Delaware-registered Turks; Antipodeans, Germans, French and Dutch.
Now, here in the N of Chios, in Kardamila, just two of us in an harbour which is usually bursting with visitors.
Haven't spoken to any of the big charter co flotilla leaders, so don't know how Sailing Holidays et al are doing, though I did have an "unbelievable" unsolicited e-mail offer from Neilsen.
So I guess things are in flux, you might find Croatia unboathabited, and I might find not a single tourist on Rhodos.
sailaboutvic
Well-Known Member
Jim , I can only imagine that the charter flotilla sailors that you had in your days where a lot more competence then the once around these days , even a simple instruction when to drop there hook by the lead skipper get cocked up .
Half the time the bow anchor is if there lucky a boat length away .
I shocked to see some of the stuff that goes on , start given them hook or angels to keep there stern lines below water and I hate to think what will happen .
On that note time for my sundowner ,
wow.bluewatersailorcroatia
Half the time the bow anchor is if there lucky a boat length away .
I shocked to see some of the stuff that goes on , start given them hook or angels to keep there stern lines below water and I hate to think what will happen .
On that note time for my sundowner ,
wow.bluewatersailorcroatia
