Crabber 17 / Coastal Whammel: Advice and alternatives

[g_reg]

Hy all

I'm new to this forum and am writing from Switzerland. I hope to get your advice on the above noted boats and/or possible alternatives. I'm looking for an open classic looking sailboat to use on our lake "Thunersee". Some years ago I owned a Cornish Shrimper, which I sold to get a classic motorboat (Damarin Grand Coast 580). Now it is time to get a sailboat again. I'm looking for a boat with the following particulars:

- classic looking
- length of +/- 18ft
- solidly built
- no cabin, but a sprayhood "Crabber 17 style"
- engine well

My research on the Internet led me to the Crabber 17 and the Coastal Weekender Whammel, which both look beautiful. Are there any alternatives? Other boats in similar style?
What is your experience sailing those boats? I'm not looking for a racing dinghy, but do they sail well (e.g. compared to the Shrimper, which I know)?

Any help or advice would be highly appreciated!
Thank you very much and kind reagards, g_reg

 

[Seajet]

You could also look at the ' Memory 19 ' which is a seriously well performing grp gaffer, available open or with a small coachroof; not cheap even by Crabber 17 standards but highly thought of.

I have an original brochure of the open decked version which I'd be happy to scan if you PM me your e-mail - but I'd recommend gaining more up to date info as well.

View attachment 57301

 

[Sandgrounder]

It might be worth looking at: -
North Quay 17 northquaymarine.co.uk
Loch Broom Post Boat characterboats.co.uk
Memory 19 no web address available either with or without a cabin
Winklebrig as above as above

 

[Rhyddid]

http://www.drascombe-association.org.uk/drascombes.php#lu

A wooden drascombe ? Worth a trawl via Mr google.

 

[Tranona]

Suggest you get a copy of the magazine Water Craft www.watercraft-magazine.com which covers this type of boat. Most of the active builders advertise in it and the editorial regularly reviews boats that might suit.

 

[banger]

I understand that the Memory is built by Collars the oar makers in Freeland , Oxfordshire, they should have a web site.

 

[ianc1200]

If you look at the OGA website, boats for sale, there's both an open and a cabin version of the Memory 19 there.

 

[LittleSister]

There was a group test of such boats some years ago (1990s?) in Yachting Monthly magazine (or possibly Practical Boat Owner). You can buy reprints of such articles via YBW online. I found it - the review is called 'Open Invitations', Yachting Monthly November 1993; 6 pages long; features Cornish Crabber 17, Hawk 20, Drascombe Lugger, Compromis Centaur, Winkle Brig, Morton Explorer and Norfolk Oyster; and it costs £6.95 for a reprint.

As I recall the conclusion on performance (only) was a Dutch Berrnudan rigged day boat (name Contest or similar) was best, then Crabber 17, Winkle Brig some way behind that, and the Drascombe last by quite a long way. (Performance on the Drascombe can be improved by various mods to the rig, I have been told, though some might think that a pointless endeavour.)

That said, every one of the boats had something in its favour, according to the review.

I used to dream of owning a Crabber 17 though I've never sailed one. (I have sailed a Crabber (26ft?), a Shrimper (and a South African Shrimper look-alike whose name I've forgotten).)

I did sail a Character Boats open gaffer about 15 feet (Loch Broom Post Boat, perhaps?), and had a lovely day's sail, but thought it wouldn't suit me as the performance seemed very modest, and the finish unappealing (though it was quite an old, well used boat so may not be like that new).

Good luck with your hunt.

 

[Seajet]

Surely a Memory would go past a Crabber or Shrimper as if it was going backwards ? - We'll draw a veil over Drascombes...

 

[g_reg]

Thanks a lot for your help and ideas. I downloaded the boat test "open invitations" as you suggested. It is very inspiring. The memory is a beautiful boat, but a bit too heavy for my needs.
I'm still impressed by the simlpicity of the coastal whammel (eg no centreboard). I'm just whondering how it will sail with that shallow long keel? Is there a lot of loss in windward performance compared to the crabber / shrimper?

Kind regards & thank you for your advice! G_reg

 

[DownWest]

. [/I]



.
(and a South African Shrimper look-alike whose name I've forgotten).)

.

Cape Cutter 19? Faster than a Shrimper

 

[Romeo]

Is there a lot of loss in windward performance compared to the crabber / shrimper?

Yes. Although you do need to think how much that really matters to you. I had a Lune Pilot (about 15 feet, no longer made) for a while, and it was a fantastic family boat. The boom was cut quite high, and the layout was quite open, so plenty of room for our family of four to sail in comfort, if not with speed. She always made to windward, although not well if you are used to a bermudian dinghy. My own personal impression is that the lune pilot sails better than the post boat. The Whammel however is faster.

I am not sure if there is that much of a difference in weight and volume between a Whammel and a Memory, and memory is probably about the same in terms of size considerations as a shrimper, although she carries more sail and has a bigger mast. And the Memory definitely has the best sailing performance of the lot.

Of the sort of boats we are talking about here, I have sailed the following, and I list them in the order that I would recommend them for pottering about on a lake with up to four people, where going a distance is not as important as time spent together, and where you are willing to go up to shrimper size. Dabber is above Lugger on looks alone. Longboat is down at the bottom because she is bigger than you need. Here goes:

Memory 19
Whammel
Shrimper
Caledonian Yawl
Ness Yawl
Lune Pilot
Drascombe Dabber
Drascome Lugger
Lune Postboat
Drascome Longboat
North Sea Skiff

Remember if you sail a Drascombe you need to leave the fenders out all the time, or at least some of them. No idea why but it does seem to be universal.

The North Sea Skiff is what I currently sail. I love her, although cramped with two on board. Lovely under oars, I would not want to try puddling about with an outboard, which can be awkward in a double ender.

Out of that list I think the only ones which sail better than the Shrimper will be the Memory and the Oughtred Yawls. The Oughtred boats are unballasted, so a bit more flightly than the others.

 

[Romeo]

Some other boats that are out there, which I have not tried, but you might want to add to your browsing list:

Kittiwake: http://www.kittiwakeboats.co.uk/kittiwake16.htm

Romilly (my own personal favourite if I was not already burdened with a wooden boat of about the same size)

http://www.roxane-romilly.co.uk/

Falmouth Bass Boat: http://falmouthbassboat.weebly.com/

 

[Tranona]

If you fancy something a bit more modern - but with "classic" looks then www.swallowboats.com www.jachtbouwbartjanbats.nl or for a range of new and used boats www.anglia-yachts.co.uk

5-7th June is the Beale Park boat show, just outside Reading will be a good place to see a selection of small boats under 20', mostly of the "classic" style.

 

[g_reg]

Thank you for your appreciated inputs. You gave me some new ideas. I will have to organize a testsail in those boats, to be sure about my decision.

Kind regards, sam

 

[Keith 66]

My late father built a Ness yawl & i ended up with it. Having read much about how wonderful they were i was strangely disapointed with her. At 19ft 6" she was not a rowing boat but had no sail carrying power either, the mizzen looks good in a magazine but is impractical in practice.
But then after owning Billows my 21ft Rye beach boat for ten years anything else was always going to be a hard boat to follow! now she was a real open boat.

 

[LittleSister]

I have sailed a . . . . South African Shrimper look-alike whose name I've forgotten.
.

Cape Cutter 19? Faster than a Shrimper

Yes, that's the one. (Though I didn't notice it being significantly faster than the Shrimper.)

 

[DownWest]

Yes, that's the one. (Though I didn't notice it being significantly faster than the Shrimper.)

Seems to do well in the RTIR on a regular basis. Now made by the builders of the 'Not a Drascombe' range . Devon Luggers etc.

 

[Neil]

Thanks a lot for your help and ideas. I downloaded the boat test "open invitations" as you suggested. It is very inspiring. The memory is a beautiful boat, but a bit too heavy for my needs.
I'm still impressed by the simlpicity of the coastal whammel (eg no centreboard). I'm just whondering how it will sail with that shallow long keel? Is there a lot of loss in windward performance compared to the crabber / shrimper?

Kind regards & thank you for your advice! G_reg

I had a Coastal Whammel for 3 or 4 seasons and liked it. It was well made and beautifully finished and hardly a single launch went by without someone coming up to me and saying what a beautiful boat it was. It sails very well off the wind, but like many gaffers wasn't particularly close winded. The sail area was quite large, good for light airs but needed to be reefed early - often my default was first reef.

In respect of the long shallow keel and despite some opinions to the contrary, I didn't find it made that much leeway. It's main advantage was that with the heavy stainless steel keel band, you could just run the boat up the slip or beach and step out. When I went for a trial sail, Character Boats' tested a boat that had an additional drop keel as a special request by a customer, though Adrian said it was unnecessary.

In respect of tacking, a problem was in choppy seas, when a wave slowed the boat, the bows sometimes failed to go through the wind. However, if you let the jib back a little, it would come round nicely.

The trailer was excellent both on the road and off, and made launching and retrieving single-handed very easy. On a good day , I could arrive at the slip and rig and launch in 20 min. This in contrast to the Memory, where the builder advised me that it wasn't suited to rigging and launching for each sail - good for a fortnight's holiday but nothing more frequent.

 

[eddystone]

Surely a Memory would go past a Crabber or Shrimper as if it was going backwards ? - We'll draw a veil over Drascombes...

No it wouldn't. There were several Memorys where I used to keep my Crabber 17 and don't recall them being significantly faster. The C17 is a more exhilarating sail than you might think from looking at some of the owners.