CQR anchors.

[GHA]

Suppose a newer new generation anchor were to be put on the market that performed better in tests than the existing new generation ones.

Would you new generation fellows, with fear gnawing at your vitals, buy it and scrap your exiting ones?

Nope.

The new gens around now work very well. Nothing like swapping to a new gen after a few years cruising with a mediocre cqr, Having one that worked was , like so many say, "...Night and day..."

If in the market for a new hook then yes, would do a load of research and have a really good look at what's available.

Your labels would be better as 'anchors which generally work well, set quick and hold well in a variety of bottoms' , that's what the cruisers I know want and generally go for. Just so happens the newer designs meet those desires. Likes a cqr's don't.

So "Would you good anchor fellows buy a better hook if it came on the market?"

Probably not unless wanting a new hook anyway, the better designs are very good already. >

 

[JumbleDuck]

Suppose a newer new generation anchor were to be put on the market that performed better in tests than the existing new generation ones.

The Knox and the Spade reliably outperform the Rocna and Manson ...

 

[pawl]

What a waste of time, it's like saying a Trabant is as good as a Bugatti Veyron because both have engines and brakes that work.

I think your analogy is a bit harsh, doubtless the new generation anchors are superior but the CQR was the "gold standard" of its day. Perhaps a better analogy would be between your Bugatti and a vintage Bently. The newer car would be better in most respects. However, if I already had a vintage Bently would I buy a Bugatti to go to the pub, probably not. If I was going on a world tour, possibly. Assuming I had the money that is.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I think your analogy is a bit harsh, doubtless the new generation anchors are superior but the CQR was the "gold standard" of its day. Perhaps a better analogy would be between your Bugatti and a vintage Bently. The newer car would be better in most respects. However, if I already had a vintage Bently would I buy a Bugatti to go to the pub, probably not. If I was going on a world tour, possibly. Assuming I had the money that is.

Harsh, I didn't know CQRs had feelings, never mind that that they could express them. Maybe a sentient CQR is forcing some responses in this thread. It's the logical conclusion.

 

[RichardS]

The Knox and the Spade reliably outperform the Rocna and Manson ...

That's debatable.

Richard

 

[NormanS]

Harsh, I didn't know CQRs had feelings, never mind that that they could express them. Maybe a sentient CQR is forcing some responses in this thread. It's the logical conclusion.

Any anchor which can tell whether it is being "set" by engine revs, rather than the force of the wind, must be a sentient being. QED.

 

[Kukri]

That's debatable.

Richard

This is an anchor thread! Surely you don’t expect facts!

 

[Neeves]

There is strong evidence that people do not choose anchors based on facts

If you walk round American marinas you will see both Fortress and, genuine, Danforth on the bow rollers of vessels, including yachts. I have only once seen a Fortress on a bow roller outside America and it was a swishy American MoBo. You will see more Bugels on bow rollers of German yachts and in marinas closer to Turkey. If the local chandler is a Rocna or Manson distributor - then the marinas in close proximity will sport anchors whose distributor is closest. Many new yachts at boat shows are commissioned with Delta - owners tend not to bother to change. Older yachts, that are owned by the original owners or have passed though a few hands tend to be equiped with older designs, Delta, CQR, Bruce - owners tend not to bother to change. You see more Spades (and Britanys) on yachts in French marinas, French colonial marinas and with yachts dressed with a French flag. In Australia I have seen Kobras only on newly commission yachts, from French yards.

Money is an additional factor - for obvious reasons. At one end of the spectrum people don't want to invest in something as ugly as an anchor and at the other end of the spectrum Ultra are successful.

If the Epsilon is successful, if it develops a loyal following - it will change the dynamic. It seems to be cheaper than virtually anything else available. It is distributed by a company who reaches every corner of the globe and will be held in a large number of chandlers. It will be bundled up with windlass, hatches and winches as a package for boat builders, it will fit virtually every bow roller and it is SHHP certificated - so will appear on vessels in survey.

If you are in the market for a 'different' anchor to Epsilon I would delay my investment (especially with the approach of the European winter where enthusiasm to sail, and anchor out, might diminish) as prices of your desired product might fall reflecting Lewmar's position. Lewmar might make the other manufacturers 'more honest' and those who have bought a new anchor recently might find they have increased the pension funds of there anchor maker, unnecessarily.

Someone will pipe up and say - this does not include people who really anchor - the liveaboards - suggesting somehow liveaboards are better and know their stuff. I can point you to a thread where it is obvious people do not know their stuff , where their disciples and sycophants don't know their stuff either ). I don't find this 'live aboard story' very convincing (arrogant, yes - valid, no - see the other thread) as the long term liveaboards we meet have a huge cross section of anchors, one we met carried 7 anchors, CQR, 2 Danforth, 1 Fishemans (I don't recall the others) and they were half way round the world. Some carry Supremes, some Rocnas, Some Spade and some Deltas, Bruce and CQRs - there is no hard and fast rule. Many long term cruisers have slim wallets and use what they have - with success.

Based on anchor ownership there is a huge potential market out there to convince the owners of CQRs,, Deltas, Bruce etc to change. The gullibility of yacht owners is clear to see (see the previous part of the post) as is the influences that dictate their purchasing patterns.

It will be interesting to review in 5 years time - what transpired - and how many of the current anchor makers prosper and who falls by the wayside.

Jonathan

 

[Porthandbuoy]

If difficulty in retrieval is any measure of how well an anchor holds then my Knox is leagues ahead of the CQR it replaced.

 

[Zagato]

My rationale.... I am in the process of buying an anchor when I have almost a perfectly good 10KG Danforth and 10KG CQR. My genuine Bruce is too small and not great in weed apparently which I often come across. I have to handle my anchors either deploying from the bow or cockpit. I also have to store them... the Danforth is easier to store than the CQR for me BUT the Danforth is so unwieldy to carry to the bow or out of the cabin and it will really bite me one day, you can take chunks out of your boat with it so for me it is down to the Delta or Rocna. I don,t know anything about the Epsilion, little on the internet, no idea of price, are they actually available, even though they were being spoken about two years ago...

My next anchor will be my anchor for life so I don,t mind paying a bit and selling my old anchors is bringing the price down. I have chosen the Rocna as it does appear to set first time more reliably than the Delta so an extra few quid is fine for peace of mind and less stress in a tight anchorage as I mostly sail single handed. The Rocna with its roll bar or fixed shank is so easy to handle and lift and drop back into the locker or cabin for instance. I am buying one this weekend unless Chandlers do Xmas sales?!

 

[doug748]

In my view, the next battleground should be value.

Lewmar can do a 10kg galvanized fabrication for a little over 100 quid UK, the Delta. Get near that price point and you mop up.

 

[awol]

In my view, the next battleground should be value.

Lewmar can do a 10kg galvanized fabrication for a little over 100 quid UK, the Delta. Get near that price point and you mop up.

Are you serious? A £100 anchor suitable for a plastic fantastic? Next you'll be suggesting a welded bent rebar grapnel as used by fishermen the world over.

 

[doug748]

Are you serious? A £100 anchor suitable for a plastic fantastic? Next you'll be suggesting a welded bent rebar grapnel as used by fishermen the world over.

Well now, here are two anchors:

Rocna Anchors Galvanised Steel Rock Solid Design | Force 4 Chandlery

Lewmar Delta Anchor Galvanised Steel | Force 4 Chandlery

In engineering terms they are the same thing. But one is three times the price of the other. Spot the gap in the market.

.

 

[Sybarite]

My rational :

I have ever only used a Britany anchor but that incidentally is the choice of the French SNSM.
Based on French tests the Spade and the Rocna usually come out on top with the Spade marginally winning. Because (a) it cuts through kelp better and (b) it does not bring up kilos of mud trapped by the hoop, and (c) marginally higher absolute holding power.
I don't know the Epsilon but will investigate further.
There is also a Britany plough anchor called the Roc ; comments in the press about the Rocna say that it's in the same sort of league as the Roc.
Cost : the additional cost to get a NGA : maybe €200 or so? What is that in relation to the value of the boat or being able to sleep soundly at night time?

 

[Lucy52]

Lewmar Epsilon Galvanised Anchor 10KG just £171.19 for a new generation anchor.

Lewmar Epsilon Galvanised Anchor

No recommendations for size or holding power to be found anywhere on the net. Lewmar just don't want to sell them.
Though you could size as per the Delta on the basis that it might be as good. lol

 

[awol]

Lewmar Epsilon Galvanised Anchor 10KG just £171.19 for a new generation anchor.

Lewmar Epsilon Galvanised Anchor

No recommendations for size or holding power to be found anywhere on the net. Lewmar just don't want to sell them.
Though you could size as per the Delta on the basis that it might be as good. lol

A 10kg Epsilon in 316 Stainless could be yours for a mere £674.38 . The extra monkey to garner pontoon envy must be worth every penny.

 

[Neeves]

Lewmar are marketing the Epsilon with Super High Holding Power certification which is the same certification as Spade. Delta was sold as a High Holding Power anchor and Spade and Epsilon should have twice the hold of a Delta. Rocna and Supreme were also SHHP anchors - models of a similar weight, including Spade and Epsilon should be roughly indistinguishable from each other in terms of hold. Epsilon comes with an optional roll bar, which would aid anyone carrying it down the deck - there is no indication why a roll bar could be an option (and whether it is an optional extras or in with the price).

The stainless model has a duplex shank in the 2205 alloy

I agree Lewmar seem strangely reluctant to promote the Epsilon (and their Fortress clone, the LFX).

There was a thread on Epsilon earlier

New anchor - Lewmar

with a couple of links and one/some of the links might have had a spreadsheet of anchor weight vs vessel size.

I have not heard of anyone actually having sight of the anchor - but as Lewmar are based in Southampton and its advertised as being available, even in Oz, then seeing one should not be impossible.

Jonathan

 

[FlyingGoose]

Can someone poke me awake when a consensus has been made by the forum
I by the way use a Rocna , never used anything else as I'm a youngy , never dragged in all substrates and been in some blows.
If it works why replace, if the CQR works why replace.
Who is right what is right when is it right is irelevant, if it works for you
Oh my spare is a CQR and I'm Scottish and will not have a bad word said about it you here me.
Oh just to add I've never used it

 

[NormanS]

In all anchoring scenarios the main variable is surely not the anchor, but the ground that it is to work in/on.
People here have been saying that such and such an anchor won't grip in tangle (long heavy weed). Of course it won't, no anchor devised by man will give a reliable grip in weed. The real answer is not whether my anchor is shinier/sharper/more expensive/more modern etc. The real answer is to know the grounds that give reliable results.
Personally, I don't leave that to chance. Some places the water is clear, and it's easy to see whether there are clean patches of sand or mud. Where I can't see the bottom, I use my fishfinder, which gives me a good representation of the seabed, so I can see if it's clean, clear of rocky patches or weed. There's more to anchoring than just buying the latest and most fashionable anchor, and chucking it overboard.

 

[Poey50]

The Greeks first starting putting lead in anchor stocks in 5th Century BC. Before then they were all stone. A massive trove of scrolls has recently been discovered covering 2,000 years of argument between those who thought this was a good idea and those who thought it was just the latest fad.*


















* not every fact in this paragraph is true.