CQR anchors.

[Kukri]

I wonder if it is possible to rejuvenate an elderly drop forged CQR by sleeving a worn pin? They can be re-galvanised.

 

[Neeves]

I have been told that here in Oz it was common practice to re-sleeve the shank, this suggests the anchors lasted (for ever) and people did re-juvenate them. Again, here, it is common knowledge that the hinge wears. Its not difficult (theoretically) as the sleeve would be in 2 parts and hammered into the shank end. If you had to replace the pin - its a bigger task as you would need to drill or cut out the old one.

I've never heard of it being done recently. The skills required, limited though they are, have been rapidly lost and the idea of maintaining your own yacht is becoming alien here, though this may be a view from Sydney - not country wide. I also think there is now such a strong mindset against CQRs - no-one would even think about it. I don't recall the detail of your history but before Fortress, Spade and Rocna we all used to anchor at San Fernando using CQRs, Bruce or Danforth - and no-one thought anything of it.

I had a look at mine, its a genuine 20lb model (made in Scotland and used in San Fernando) and I'm not sure the ballast is lead, it might be but I'd need to drill it to find out. It does not appear to have a ballast chamber (into which any lead would be poured) and the fluke may be simply cast. However production may have changed or smaller ones may be different to bigger ones and if it has lead it is usually easy to melt out (blow torch) and then add back once the galvanising is complete.

You may find, if you are going to do this (re-galvanise), that you need to consolidate your anchor with other items (find your nearest agricultural metal worker) or someone on the forum who wants to re-gal their chain. Galvanisers can have Min Order Quantity - which is well above anchor size. Or contact Geoff at Highland Galvanisers ands he might galvanise a single anchor - though he might suggest you move onward and upward and invest in a Knox!

Jonathan

 

[Zagato]

A few coats of zinc galvanise spray may be an alternative, not as strong but.... I have done what Neeves has suggested in the past for Land Rover parts to be re galvanised I.e. Throw it in with an existing order, it is a lot cheaper!

 

[noelex]

The ballast in a genuine CQR is steel, so it can be re-galvanised easily.

The pin can be re-sleeved. The hinge surfaces (see arrows on the photo below) also frequently wear. These should be at least checked. While they are not too bad on the example in the photo they also often need to be rebuilt to restore the original geometry and performance. This is not difficult to do, but unless you are doing the work yourself in my view the money would be much better invested in a new generation anchor. The other option is find a little used, secondhand CQR. They are often available at a low cost.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I wonder if it is possible to rejuvenate an elderly drop forged CQR by sleeving a worn pin? They can be re-galvanised if you melt the lead out first, and then pour it back once the anchor has been te-galvanised.

As far as I am aware, genuine CQRs have no lead in them. I had mine regalvanised without any lead-related activity.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I had a look at mine, its a genuine 20lb model (made in Scotland and used in San Fernando) and I'm not sure the ballast is lead, it might be but I'd need to drill it to find out. It does not appear to have a ballast chamber (into which any lead would be poured) and the fluke may be simply cast. However production may have changed or smaller ones may be different to bigger ones and if it has lead it is usually easy to melt out (blow torch) and then add back once the galvanising is complete.

Genuine CQRs say they are genuine, say Made in Scotland, have the weight embossed in the shank and patent number. Genuine CQRs have no lead, the toe is cast steel.

Edit: Not trying to catch you out, Jonathan, just a reminder that you seem to have investigated this before. Second quote is 2016.

 

[Neeves]

Edit: Not trying to catch you out, Jonathan, just a reminder that you seem to have investigated this before. Second quote is 2016.

JD - I wondered whether Kukri with a much bigger yacht (and I'm assuming) a much bigger anchor was correct and that larger CQRs might have had lead in the toe. I was hedging my bets!

I have a Manson Plough, a poor copy of the CQR, and it does have lead in the toe. Its so poor a copy it has 40lb embossed in the shank - but actually weighs 49lb. This could be advantageous (if the weight is in the fluke and specifically the toe) but as its a poor anchor I suspect the weight is in the shank

When Anchor Right started to make their Exccels they build a ballast chamber and cast lead into the toe. Now they cast steel into the toe. Designs change.

I was hedging by bets

Jonathan

 

[Kukri]

As far as I am aware, genuine CQRs have no lead in them. I had mine regalvanised without any lead-related activity.

That is what I thought, but I had got muddled. I had a 35lbs one (old enough to be marked “CQR PAT PEND”!) regalvanised easily.

 

[sailaboutvic]

This is how well an Rocna will set and hold ,
Can't get it out when you want to

 

[Neeves]

On reflection:

Now I don't want to be controversial and contradicts any one but

I was mulling over the amount of use a CQR would need to cause wear of the pin, this thought developed into thinking the gal would wear before there was much wear on the pin (as the pin and the hole are quite large areas but the gal is at best 70 microns thick? - thus if there was wear the anchor itself should be a pile of rust....and if JD has had his anchor re-galvanised - has he noted wear.

I said that sleeving CQRs was not uncommon here. But I look at Noelex picture and think - there is no wear exhibited in that image as I'd expect the wear to be preferentially 'oval' or elliptical as the fluke articulates but only so far. Noelex, excellent, picture shows two almost perfect circles, one for the pin in the fluke and one for the hole though which the pin is retained. as if they were made that way.

I confess not to have looked at a new, off the shelf (or still on the shelf), genuine CQR and certainly have not made a practice of checking for wear. My small model saw little use, not enough to develop a wear pattern.

Kukri - any chance of a pic?

Maybe they were always made a loose fit? - and sleeving the pin or hole might alter what was a clever design feature....?

Jonathan

 

[Mark-1]

A few coats of zinc galvanise spray may be an alternative, not as strong but.... I have done what Neeves has suggested in the past for Land Rover parts to be re galvanised I.e. Throw it in with an existing order, it is a lot cheaper!

Colour it in silver with a felt tip.

My claw came to me new with the price written on it with a black permannant marker. A few years and over 100 deployments later the pen is still visible and the galvanising is looking a bit worn in places! ?

 

[Kukri]

The 60lbs CQR on the boat now is in fine condition, as the Previous Owner (the British Army) always stowed it below in a locker!

I don’t remember any issues with the 35lbs original or the 45lbs one that I added in 2001 on the ex boat. They were carried in chocks on deck.

I think it may be carrying them on the roller that causes the wear.

 

[noelex]

I think it may be carrying them on the roller that causes the wear.

Yes, I agree.

The slop in the CQR hinge is a combination of straight corrosion and corrosion accelerated by wear. The second factor, I think, is more significant. Even a well used anchor does not move much on the seabed so I suspect this occurs mainly from movement on the bow roller although any trapped substrate in this area, especially sand is abrasive and must contibute to wear.

There is great deal of variation. For example, on this this heavily corroded CQR there is not much play, despite the extensive rust, or even near disintegration of the anchor. My guess is that it has been left at the bottom of damp locker, but without any movement on the hinge. The hinge is OK but the rest of the anchor is terrible:

On the other hand this CQR has extensive corrosion and more play in the hinge mechanism:

Here is another example of less general corrosion, but still significant play. In this case it appears to come mainly from an enlargement of the hole rather than wear of the pin:

So lots of variation. My advice would be to make sure the CQR cannot pivot around on the bow roller while sailing, and if you have an older anchor check it for wear in this important area.

 

[NormanS]

These are impressive photos! When I used a CQR for 30 years, when stowed on the roller it was always tied off so that it couldn't swing about. Not consciously to avoid wear, but to keep it clear of the other bow roller. Maybe I saved myself a bit of grief.

 

[Kukri]

had a look at mine, its a genuine 20lb model (made in Scotland and used in San Fernando) and I'm not sure the ballast is lead, it might be but I'd need to drill it to find out. It does not appear to have a ballast chamber (into which any lead would be poured) and the fluke may be simply cast. However production may have changed or smaller ones may be different to bigger ones and if it has lead it is usually easy to melt out (blow torch) and then add back once the galvanising is complete.

I wonder if you have a “B” model CQR there? I don’t think 20lbs was a production size for the “A” model. I think the “A” models were 15, 25, 35, 45, 60, 75, 105... If it is a “B” (cast, not drop forged) it will say so.

 

[JumbleDuck]

I was mulling over the amount of use a CQR would need to cause wear of the pin, this thought developed into thinking the gal would wear before there was much wear on the pin (as the pin and the hole are quite large areas but the gal is at best 70 microns thick? - thus if there was wear the anchor itself should be a pile of rust....and if JD has had his anchor re-galvanised - has he noted wear.

The pin may be a little loose, but it doesn't seem excessively so, and the hole is still round. I'll be at the boat later this week and I'll try to remember to measure up the gap in order to compare it with the very nearly brand new (used twice) 20-lb one I have in my garage.

 

[Poignard]

The pin may be a little loose, but it doesn't seem excessively so, and the hole is still round. I'll be at the boat later this week and I'll try to remember to measure up the gap in order to compare it with the very nearly brand new (used twice) 20-lb one I have in my garage.

Please let us know what you find.

 

[Neeves]

I wonder if you have a “B” model CQR there? I don’t think 20lbs was a production size for the “A” model. I think the “A” models were 15, 25, 35, 45, 60, 75, 105... If it is a “B” (cast, not drop forged) it will say so.

I don't recall seeing a 'A' nor a 'B'. I'll have a look - and in my ignorance thought they were all drop forged! It was bought in the mid 80's, maybe '87.

The other almost unique feature of the CQR was that it came with an unusually overly long 'D' shackle welded or peened and pin through the shank. This must have been part of the original design - making the shank exceptionally long in the 'vertical' and adding to articulation in the horizontal. I wonder how many original shackles were cut off because the assembly was too long for the space between bow roller and windlass (resulting in reduced performance and a source of unjustified complaint).

Jonathan

I wonder if you have a “B” model CQR there? I don’t think 20lbs was a production size for the “A” model. I think the “A” models were 15, 25, 35, 45, 60, 75, 105... If it is a “B” (cast, not drop forged) it will say so.

I had a look at our CQR, it has no 'A' nor 'B' on the metal work. Both the fluke and shank are defined as CQR 20lg and the shank has the Patent number embossed on one side, though difficult to read the number - and no 'Made in Scotland' All the embossing is on one side and there is no room for 'made in Scotland' on the side they chose to emboss.

I actually don't know how they made them, at all. On ours the pin appears integral with the fluke, though they could have added the pin later and simply welded it in. But originally they would not have had access to welding (it was pretty exotic at the time - and I'd have thought too exotic for a humble anchor). So assuming ours is to the original Patent - how did they make them - as the whole thing seems to be made in one piece. One option would be to drop forge the shank and cast the fluke (with the shank in place (which would explain why there is such a big gap at the hinge (to allow for the mould 'in' the crown.

I'm far to young to know about drop forging :

Jonathan

 

[JumbleDuck]

I don't recall seeing a 'A' nor a 'B'. I'll have a look - and in my ignorance thought they were all drop forged! It was bought in the mid 80's, maybe '87.

As far as I know, the only different versions of CQR were forged (whole pounds) vis cast (fractional pounds), as I think someone has already said.

I actually don't know how they made them, at all. On ours the pin appears integral with the fluke, though they could have added the pin later and simply welded it in. But originally they would not have had access to welding (it was pretty exotic at the time - and I'd have thought too exotic for a humble anchor).

Oxy-acetylene was well established as a process during WW1 and electric arc welding (including MIG) was developed in the 20s, so it would certainly have been a viable process by the time the CQR was invented. On my nice new CQR the "pin" is quite rough, so I agree with you that it's almost certainly integral with the fluke. My best guess is that the foot would be forged, complete with "pin", and the shank made with the forked end splayed, then the end would be positioned over the "pin" and the fork pressed together. All hot, of course.

I'm far to young to know about drop forging :

Although drop forging can be done hot or cold, there was a time (my boy) when it was mainly used as a euphemism for "cold stamped". Might still be - never buy "drop forged" spanners. Proper forging tended or tends to be called "hot forged"

 

[Poignard]

I would have thought that the easiest way would be to have the pin an interference fit, driven in with the shank hot, so that it would shrink on to the pin when it cooled.

I did wonder whether the pin might be tapered but I have just been out to the back yard where I have a spare genuine 35lb CQR (and no, it is NOT a garden ornament ) to check and the pin is not tapered.