GHA
Well-known member
Didn;t you see the more than 1I was trying to respond what I took to be a humorous post from you in kind. Seems to have misfired.
CQR anchors.
- Thread starter doug748
- Start date
sailaboutvic
Well-known member
I think the CQR debate will carry on well after most of us have kicked the bucket .
What I do find interesting and this is no disrespect to any one here , it seen anyone with a Scottish back ground seen to feel they need to defend the CQR .
What I do find interesting and this is no disrespect to any one here , it seen anyone with a Scottish back ground seen to feel they need to defend the CQR .
Poignard
Well-known member
No. My eyes were blinded by tears!Didn;t you see the more than 1
Kukri
Well-known member
My first boat had cotton sails, number one manila* halyards and sheets and a Fisherman anchor. That was 1969, Sir RK-J was heading heroically for Falmouth and some very brave and expert Americans were taking a giant leap for mankind, carrying mechanical watches because quartz watches hadn’t been invented.
I merely sailed by myself, with a little sister for part of the time, from West Mersea to Woodbridge, via all points in between, and back. The anchor never dragged, but it was an expletive deleted nuisance. So yes, I actually have done it.
The next boat came with a CQR; the one after that had a horrid Danforth, and after that it’s been CQRs all the way. I see that people condemn CQRs but call the Fortress a “new generation” anchor. It looks just like a Danforth. I would not dream of using one. Bites fingers, ground chains, it’s own chain and in fact anything except the sea bed. Your mileage may vary, and I expect Johnathan’s probably will!?
I think a very big change happened when people started carrying their anchor in the bow roller. I’d date that to the rise of marinas, because on a buoy you want the bow roller for the mooring strop.
* Cheaper than hemp. It came in two grades, “yacht” and “number one” and was sold by weight. “Number one” was cheaper.
I merely sailed by myself, with a little sister for part of the time, from West Mersea to Woodbridge, via all points in between, and back. The anchor never dragged, but it was an expletive deleted nuisance. So yes, I actually have done it.
The next boat came with a CQR; the one after that had a horrid Danforth, and after that it’s been CQRs all the way. I see that people condemn CQRs but call the Fortress a “new generation” anchor. It looks just like a Danforth. I would not dream of using one. Bites fingers, ground chains, it’s own chain and in fact anything except the sea bed. Your mileage may vary, and I expect Johnathan’s probably will!?
I think a very big change happened when people started carrying their anchor in the bow roller. I’d date that to the rise of marinas, because on a buoy you want the bow roller for the mooring strop.
* Cheaper than hemp. It came in two grades, “yacht” and “number one” and was sold by weight. “Number one” was cheaper.
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zoidberg
Well-known member
I have one o' they wee things. Haven't tried it yet..... I'm feert!
It cost me ISTR £20 on one of them Facebook pages. Looks like it has been kept in a cupboard under the stairs all its life, and I thunk to put it in my crewbag when e.g. racing, or delivering..... togetehr with the really good lifejacket, the spare flares, my own GPS/ VHF/handbearing compass and personal coffee mug, bed socks, and smart clean shirt in case we're invited aboard somewhere posh.
Should it turn out to be a NBG NGA, then maybe I'll put it on here for, perhaps, £25.....
Oh, and there's a very good reason why all us expat Scots rush to the defence of the venerable genuine Simpson-Lawrence CQR. That's 'cos it was built in Bonny Scotland.... 'Clydebuilt' was a worldwide guaranteed of excellence in engineering all last century. Just like the Scots engineers.....
zoidberg
Well-known member
One of the disadvantages of extreme old age is a loss of staying power .....
Well, I'm still here...... and staying.
Just saying.
Poignard
Well-known member
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
Because good enough is good enough. What sort of car do you have? (Disclosure: in my case the answer is a tatty 2003 Citroën Berlingo)
GHA
Well-known member
Ain't had a car for yonks. Though a beaten up old car isn't what you use to keep your home and possessions from getting smashed up on the rocks.
Mediocre is certainly plenty good enough for many people who never venture beyond some favourite anchorages where one will hold OK or only lunch stops, that's not the point being made.
Still not a very good hook though, there are many far better.
An ancient motorola brick might work as a phone, still not a good phone though.
Yet another weak argument from north of the border.....
NormanS
Well-known member
It seems like a lot of folk who have been taken in by aggressive marketing, and spent good money on "fashion", feel very strongly that they have to justify their actions, even to the point of suggesting that their sailing and anchoring is much more challenging than that of others.Ain't had a car for yonks. Though a beaten up old car isn't what you use to keep your home and possessions from getting smashed up on the rocks.
Mediocre is certainly plenty good enough for many people who never venture beyond some favourite anchorages where one will hold OK or only lunch stops, that's not the point being made.
Still not a very good hook though, there are many far better.
An ancient motorola brick might work as a phone, still not a good phone though.
Yet another weak argument from north of the border.....
Personally, I don't think it matters at all, which anchors people use, as long as they are happy with their choice.
doug748
Well-known member
GHA
Well-known member
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
I can't speak for other Scots, but I don't feel the need need to defend anything.
I think it is more that the CQR was very popular in Scotland, probably because Simpson-Lawrence made it and also supplied most chandlers here. Many Scottish boats still have them, so positive reports are likely to come from here, in much the same way that positive reports about the Bugel will tend to come from Germany, positive reports about the Fortress will tend to come from the US and positive reports about the Knox will tend to come from ... Scotland.
JumbleDuck
Well-known member
I have a nearly-five year old Medion (Lenovo) which I bought from Aldi for £60. It does everything I need it to do, and I see absolutely no reason to spend money on anything newer, faster and inevitably more expensive. What phone do you have?
duncan99210
Well-known member
There are parallels between the arguments in here about anchors and the discussions in the British Army at the time of the Crimea about the move from the Brown Bess musket (largely unchanged since the late 18th century) to the Minnie rifle. Much of the argument was effectively what was good enough for grandpa is good enough for me and you can’t load the new rifle as fast as you could load the Brown Bess. Kind of missed the point: increased range and reliability made the rifle a much more effective weapon.
Kind of like the CQR v anything else argument. Sure the CQR will do the job but the new anchors frankly do it better and more reliably. I know which anchor I want and it isn’t a CQR: I’ve even replaced the one on my little Hurley 18 with a Guardian.
Kind of like the CQR v anything else argument. Sure the CQR will do the job but the new anchors frankly do it better and more reliably. I know which anchor I want and it isn’t a CQR: I’ve even replaced the one on my little Hurley 18 with a Guardian.
mjcoon
Well-known member
Ah, when James May set out to re-assemble one of those on TV I recollected the neat speed governor inside that ensures that the dial pulses come at the right rate to match the exchange uniselectors...If cqr made phones..
Rosie1963
Active member
I’ve always used a CQR and the reason is that I’ve never dragged. It was never my choice, the CQRs came with my last two boats, and they worked - so why change? The latest boat came with a Delta, with a CQR back-up. I’ve had to used the CQR kedge in anger as the Delta was so embedded, summer before last, that my rather ancient manual windlass could not cope and I had to buoy it off. So I am quite impressed with the Delta too, and as it works, in no rush to go NG. Anyway, to my eye, the Delta is very much more of a design iteration away from a CQR - it seems the latest iteration from a Delta has only really added a roll bar to gain their NGA accolade. It would seem I have not been unlucky enough to set any of these upside down yet.
RichardS
N/A
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Neeves
Well-known member
I'm not sure that trolling on another forum is covered by YBW rules - the rules imply activity on YBW and high lighting such behaviour using the 'Report Post Function' I do not think would carry much weight in correcting such activity - considering the individual concerned is a Moderator of the/another forum. Usually criticism of Moderators is not permissible - and can lead to penalty (which does seem valid here as the Mods tend to keep a low profile).
I also note that SPAM is also frowned upon, more colloquially here - to Spruik.
I am wary of YBW rules - but I'm not into clipeing/cliping (I had to check, the latter is correct - from the word to clipe/clype, or in Oz, dob in . I call a Spade a Spade.
I do note you have support for your post.
As I say - shoot the messenger
Jonathan
I also note that SPAM is also frowned upon, more colloquially here - to Spruik.
I am wary of YBW rules - but I'm not into clipeing/cliping (I had to check, the latter is correct - from the word to clipe/clype, or in Oz, dob in . I call a Spade a Spade.
I do note you have support for your post.
As I say - shoot the messenger
Jonathan
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Neeves
Well-known member
From memory the term 'New Generation' anchor and their definition was coined by Peter Smith. His definition was cleverly written, at the time, and was such that only one anchor really fitted with the confines of the description. One of the key facets was the roll bar. The requirement for a NG anchor as defined by Peter have been, generally, forgotten and now any anchor introduced since around 2006 is considered a NG anchor. I tend to go back a bit further (ignoring the requirement for a roll bar) and include Fortress and Spade, late 80's and early 90's respectively.
It is odd that a roll bar is demanded as Peter Bruce patented the idea in the 70's, but he never felt the need to use it, and it was used (again I think in the 70s for the Bugel and also in the 90s by Anchor Right with their SARCA, originally introduced as the ROSCA. The ROSCA was effectively a SARCA with the fluke inverted.
I prefer to use the words 'new generation' more liberally than Peter to encompass any anchor that has been awarded SHHP (Super High Holding Power), as the older anchors, CQR, Bruce, Delta have rated at half the hold and defined as HHP (High Holding Power). Most other people also seem to have a more liberal view than Peter - but I do not recall anyone providing their definition. Interestingly the original cast bruce in very large sizes (for oil rigs) was classed HHP but the fabricated version, made from plate steel, I think is SHHP. The bulk of the cast version, the thickness of the fluke - is also a deterrent to diving but plate steel, being thinner, does not carry this disadvantage.
I had a discussion with a colleague of Lewmar's introduction of their new anchor with an optional roll bar and we did conclude that it was, possibly, a marketing gimmick to pander to Lewmar's identification that a roll bar sells anchors. Maybe Rosie - great minds think alike! The reality is Spade and Anchor Right's Excel have proven that a roll bar is unnecessary and other anchors that do not appear to have gained traction but also self right without a roll bar include the Manson/West Marine 'Scoop' and again Manson 'The Boss', not forgetting the much more successful Bruce.
Roll bars do add to hold when set - but they equally act as a deterrent to diving.
Time and hopefully some independent testing will determine if the roll bar for the Epsilon is necessary and/or why it is an option.
Jonathan
I include Spade and Fortress as NGA as they are both rated SHHP and both offered new design or novel manufacturing. Other SHHP anchors, though the actual certification may have lapsed include Epsilon. Ultra, Excel, Rocna, Supreme. I appreciate some do not accept SHHP as a very high standard - but its all we have (in terms of hold) and to be awarded SHHP the certification process assesses strength/inmtegrity and specific standards as to the manufacturing process. There may be other SHHP anchors, correct any omissions and I will add them to the list.
J
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