CQR anchors.

[GHA]

'

Tut, tut! Bloody amateurs in manky old boats.

Good job there was no YBW Forum then, or they'd have had a roasting for their foolhardiness.

Doubt it. The old ones like Moitessier & Hiscock & Tilman et al would almost certainly these days, like then, be using the best they could get hold of.

 

[Neeves]

People appear to forget that Fortress and Spade did not 'register' till - when, say the year 2000 - the choice was Danforth (which were not mainstream in Europe), Bruce, Delta and CQR. In the UK and 'the colonies' Oz, HK (the only ones on which I can comment) the primary choice was CQR - Delta and Bruce were new fangled things.

Its surprising how many Brits survived and made some heroic passages relying on CQRs for security at anchor.

After 90 years you would hope design and technology has moved on - but CQRs are as reliable now as they were in, say, 1969, and my guess (totally without foundation) are used by as many people now - as then.

Jonathan

 

[sailaboutvic]

People appear to forget that Fortress and Spade did not 'register' till - when, say the year 2000 - the choice was Danforth (which were not mainstream in Europe), Bruce, Delta and CQR. In the UK and 'the colonies' Oz, HK (the only ones on which I can comment) the primary choice was CQR - Delta and Bruce were new fangled things.

Its surprising how many Brits survived and made some heroic passages relying on CQRs for security at anchor.

After 90 years you would hope design and technology has moved on - but CQRs are as reliable now as they were in, say, 1969, and my guess (totally without foundation) are used by as many people now - as then.

Jonathan

Jonathan
I can't comment what people use the other side of the world , but in Europe well the Med walk around any marina and you be very lucky to see the odd CQR and it probably be on some 30 year old boat .

 

[Poignard]

Jonathan
I can't comment what people use the other side of the world , but in Europe well the Med walk around any marina and you be very lucky to see the odd CQR and it probably be on some 30 year old boat .

If the boat has survived 30 years using a CQR that might suggest that its present and previous owners' trust in it is justified

 

[sailaboutvic]

If the boat has survived 30 years using a CQR that might suggest that its present and previous owners' trust in it is justified

Yes your quite right but looking at these old boats rotten away it more likely their owner refused to up date them .

 

[Poignard]

Yes your quite right but looking at these old boats rotten away it more likely their owner refused to up date them .

I give up ?

 

[eddystone]

1. Are anchor threads deleterious to mental health
2. What do anchor threads and COVID19 have in common?

 

[Neeves]

I give up ?

Don't give up

I believe Sunstone managed to get round the world and received a medal for a cruise up in the Aleutians - using a CQR as an anchor. Novak used a CQR, and has videos to prove it, and took a long time to be convinced

Design and technology has moved on (which was mentioned) but CQRs were all people had and if CQRs had been a significant cause of lost yachts - we would have the documentary evidence.

No-one is forced to read anchor threads - reading is voluntary. Life is too short to read every thread, be selective. If your health is at risk - its your own fault

and

Wear a face mask.

Religously

 

[sailaboutvic]

I give up ?

I knew it was just a matter of time

 

[Poignard]

I knew it was just a matter of time

One of the disadvantages of extreme old age is a loss of staying power .....

 

[sailaboutvic]

Don't give up

I believe Sunstone managed to get round the world and received a medal for a cruise up in the Aleutians - using a CQR as an anchor. Novak used a CQR, and has videos to prove it, and took a long time to be convinced

Design and technology has moved on (which was mentioned) but CQRs were all people had and if CQRs had been a significant cause of lost yachts - we would have the documentary evidence.

No-one is forced to read anchor threads - reading is voluntary. Life is too short to read every thread, be selective. If your health is at risk - its your own fault

and

Wear a face mask.

Religously

Are you suggesting A face mast if your using a CQR ,
Does it set better then
It's Ok Jonathan I'm in a stupid mood

 

[sailaboutvic]

One of the disadvantages of extreme old age is a loss of staying power .....

Yea I know the feeling , it takes me all night now to do what I use to do all night long

 

[Sybarite]

Surely better to compare an old cut & shut Vauxhall Nova with drum breaks with a brand new Astra? Both are working cars, both cost a reasonable sum. One has a weak point you kind of wish wasn't there, and will stop at a red light if you know how to drive it. The other just stops at the red light even if you're not all that on the ball.
I don't think many people are claiming that a CQR won't hold a boat most of the time, but it takes a special sort of stubbornness to ignore the clear improvements that have been made over several decades. Modern anchors are clearly better than a CQR from any objective use. Whether expensive boutique modern anchors are worth the extra money over cheaper modern anchors is another question. If an anchor sets every time when you just throw it overboard with no further thought, then "better setting" is of no advantage. If a suitable size holds your boat in the strongest conceivable wind you'd be out in then "better holding" is of no advantage unless you can downsize and make the whole affair lighter. would I spend 4x the money for a lighter anchor? Maybe, given that even the expensive anchor costs less than the chain!

It costs less than a boat too.

 

[GHA]

If the boat has survived 30 years using a CQR that might suggest that its present and previous owners' trust in it is justified

Or it might not, if it's in a marina then fair chance it's never spent a night on the hook in any kind of a blow.... and maybe the owners know a thing or 2 and don't trust it..

 

[Poignard]

Or it might not, if it's in a marina then fair chance it's never spent a night on the hook in any kind of a blow.... and maybe the owners know a thing or 2 and don't trust it..

It's a bit of a leap to conclude that a boat you see in a marina has "never spent a night on the hook in any kind of a blow".

How do you know it's owner hasn't just popped in to environmentally dispose of his unsatisfactory modern anchor in the marina skip?

 

[GHA]

It's a bit of a leap to conclude that a boat you see in a marina has "never spent a night on the hook in any kind of a blow".

How do you know it's owner hasn't just popped in to environmentally dispose of his unsatisfactory modern anchor in the marina skip?

Know as much as you do guessing that the owner trusts the cqr, could be the owner knows better Why would anyone find a new gen unsatisfactory compared to an unreliable cqr? Not anyone who has spent any time cruising with both.
Why do people continually try to defend a hook of ancient design which just isn't very good compared to the newer offerings? Stick to your cotton sails and hemp rope then

 

[Sgeir]

On both our last and present boats (both34') we changed our 35lb CQRs for 16kg Kobra IIs. Apart from one occasion when the CQR pulled out a large chunk of seabed from Loch Dunvegan in a storm (the anchor didn't fail, the ground did...), we only ever properly dragged once with a CQR, and that was in the thick kelp at Craighouse, Jura. IMHO, the CQR is an an excellent anchor if set properly and we always slept well overnight.

So why did we change?

The issue is "if set properly". Unlike the video above, our anchoring technique was to start going very gently astern before lowering the CQR, and that would usually set first time, testing it with a minute or so of astern. The problem was the "usually" bit; there were occasions when it took up to four attempts simply because we were not convinced that it had dug in properly (I suspect that kelp would have been the problem in those cases). We did not have a windlass on our previous boat, so it was all hauled by hand.

It is very unusual for our Kobra II not to set first time. To me that is the major difference.

We still carry one of the CQRs in a cockpit locker, but never used it since changing over.

 

[Neeves]

Why do people continually try to defend a hook of ancient design which just isn't very good compared to the newer offerings? Stick to your cotton sails and hemp rope then

You are exclusively using carbon fibre sails, dyneema running rigging, carbon fibre mast and boom and a kevlar and carbon reinforced hull

Jonathan

 

[Deleted member 36384]

What have we learned from this thread?

We still know: -

• The CQR is an old design.
• There are clones and copies that cant be trusted.
• People still use CQRs.
• It worked for most people most of the time.
• It can take multiple attempts to set.
• It is still not reliable in Kelp.
• Has been known to rip out the seabed (after all that is what ploughs do).
• Some folks find them satisfactory and don't feel the need to change.
• Some folks have not found them satisfactory and felt the need to replace.
• Some folks think the reason people buy a NGA is because it is fashionable.
• Metaphors are contentious things.
• Anchor Threads even on anchors that have a long history backed up with undisputed facts still generate a high thread count.

Awesome!

 

[Poignard]

Know as much as you do guessing that the owner trusts the cqr, could be the owner knows better Why would anyone find a new gen unsatisfactory compared to an unreliable cqr? Not anyone who has spent any time cruising with both.
Why do people continually try to defend a hook of ancient design which just isn't very good compared to the newer offerings? Stick to your cotton sails and hemp rope then

I was trying to respond what I took to be a humorous post from you in kind. Seems to have misfired.