CQR anchors.

[JumbleDuck]

£6k interconnects! You would have to have a screw loose to even spend £6k on interconnects so £20k is only slightly more wobbly.

Yes, really. He was a friend of a colleague of mine who was hi-fi obsessed but retained some vestiges of sanity. My colleague only spent £500 on his interconnects. I remember him telling me proudly that his new speaker cables were made of "oxygen free high conductivity" copper and his disappointment when I pointed out that OFHC is the standard for all wiring ...

 

[Poignard]

When a CQR first hits the seabed, it normally lies on its side. As soon as any load is put on it, the hinged fluke digs in. As it does so, the anchor normally rights itself, burying itself, so that if there has been real load on it, you probably won't see it at all.

'

I have never seen my genuine CQR on the seabed but when I drop it and set the anchor the boat stops moving so I assume it has done what was designed to do and ploughed itself in.

If it didn't plough itself in, the boat wouldn't stop moving.

 

[webcraft]

'

I have never seen my genuine CQR on the seabed but when I drop it and set the anchor the boat stops moving so I assume it has done what was designed to do and ploughed itself in.

If it didn't plough itself in, the boat wouldn't stop moving.

... unless it is jammed in a crevice, ready to pull out and drag when the wind/tide reverses...

... or caught round a stout piece of kelp..
.


- W

 

[zoidberg]

I could not get on with my CQR, I almost always had to try setting the anchor a few times before it would dig in; nowaday I use a big Kobra II, never failed, if anything the Kobra is too sticky (Fortress Guardian for Kedge). however, it is encouraging to see a CQR video with positive results.

Huh? Bristol Channel..... and you couldn't get your CQR to set? Yon's the thickest, stickiest mud on the planet! And deep.

A Heinz Beanz tin tied to a washing line would set in that stuff......

 

[Poignard]

... unless it is jammed in a crevice, ready to pull out and drag when the wind/tide reverses...

... or caught round a stout piece of kelp..
.


- W

'

Well of course, but would another type of anchor fare any better in such circumstances?

 

[Quandary]

You tend to remember when your anchor drags rather than the occasions when it holds. Some of my experiences,
26' Trapper 300 with CQR, can not remember the weight, ashore having lunch in Ardminish Bay, Gigha after a comfortable night, someone looking out the window says 'is that yacht dragging'. It was,at discernible speed, abandoned lunch and sprinted to dinghy, came back, re-anchored and did not move thereafter.
Before the marina opened at Carrickfergus the Trapper sat all summer outside the harbour on a 22?kg. Bruce with 15m. of 3/4" ground chain and a 10mm. galv. riser. A mooring I could lift and lay from the boat despite its exposed position.
Tarbert during Scottish series, there were about 12-15 boats in each trot and the outside boat, our Trapper, was required to put its anchor (CQR ) down, in the morning after a strong night we could not lift it and had to abandon it marked with a fender to make the race start, never found it again.
33' Sigma OOD, the weight of anchors and their stowage was strictly regulated by the rule, CQR and a small Bruce, first time in a busy Canna harbour with tired wife and kids, notoriously heavy kelp, over an hour and the CQR would not bite, in desperation brought the wee Bruce out, minimal chain plus rope, held at first attempt.
Sigma 38, CQR main and Bruce kedge, hit and miss over the 12 years we had her, sometimes took the old 20kg Bruce for security.
Finngulf 33 at Tobermory, WHYW, 15 (16?) Manson Supreme, anchoring inshore of the moorings by the waterfall, damn thing never dragged before but just repeatedly failed to set, no weed came up with it, eventually tried our kedge 10kg Delta, straight in and held for two days. By kedge these days I really mean second (reserve) anchor mainly on rope because its main use then was when racing against the tide and it had to go up and down quickly. I chose the NZ manufactured Manson over a Rocna because the welding and galvanising both looked better and it was marginally cheaper.
Current boat is a Moody S31 with a 15kg. Spade and a 10kg Delta, Spade so far (3 years) is great, easy to set and never moves, can be a bit hard to recover sometimes but you can not have it both ways.
After 25 years of various CQRS (all genuine) I think that there are better options these days, but long may the anchor debate continue.

 

[capnsensible]

I like anchoring in waters where you can see the sea bed and have a swim. ?

 

[JumbleDuck]

I have never seen my genuine CQR on the seabed but when I drop it and set the anchor the boat stops moving so I assume it has done what was designed to do and ploughed itself in.

If it didn't plough itself in, the boat wouldn't stop moving.

That's a very simplistic view of anchoring, and one which is in perfect accord with my own.

 

[Laminar Flow]

I could not get on with my CQR, I almost always had to try setting the anchor a few times before it would dig in; nowaday I use a big Kobra II, never failed, if anything the Kobra is too sticky (Fortress Guardian for Kedge). however, it is encouraging to see a CQR video with positive results.

My last boat had a 75 lbs CQR; it held, mostly. I think that had more to do with the fact that it was rather heavy in the first place. Still, we would have to quite frequently do second and third settings to make sure it did. Perhaps I'm neurotic. Used it in the Baltic, Northern Europe, Med, Caribbean, Central and North Pacific.
Our current boat came with a 35lbs CQR and we did ride out a 40kts blow in the Waddenzee on it, on a second setting. In the Baltic and on weed/gravel it was near useless.
We now have switched to a 16kg Kobra. Compared to a new CQR it is as cheap as chips; the usual complaints about the prickly galvanizing be damned. This anchor is remarkably sticky. Even though it has set every time, the first time, has always held firm in strong tides and wind, my CQR induced neurosis has only slightly abated. Used our Kobra frequently in Holland, South Coast UK , Channel Islands and Brittany.
The CQR now rides in the bilge, third class, as backup.

 

[duncan99210]

I used a CQR for the first 2 years of our time as live aboard s in the Med. Getting it to set was hit and miss but once set it was fine: we sat out a 50 knot tramontana in Pollenca with it. However, I became irritated with it failing to set easily and quickly and replaced it with an equivalent Rocna which, frankly, was a revaluation. It rarely fails to set first time and once set doesn’t move, even in fairly extreme conditions.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

Huh? Bristol Channel..... and you couldn't get your CQR to set? Yon's the thickest, stickiest mud on the planet! And deep.

A Heinz Beanz tin tied to a washing line would set in that stuff......

I was using the CQR in the Solent

 

[zoidberg]

I was using the CQR in the Solent

There's the problem, right there.

You should use what all the locals, readers here, have all learned to use..... a 45lb Rocna with a 50lb Mantus in tandem, and 60 metres of 10mm chain, in Newton Creek....

Keep your provincial notions where they belong!

 

[Sybarite]

'

I have never seen my genuine CQR on the seabed but when I drop it and set the anchor the boat stops moving so I assume it has done what was designed to do and ploughed itself in.

If it didn't plough itself in, the boat wouldn't stop moving.

The criticisms in the French tests are that if the anchor is on its side eg after a tide shift then the weight (in the wrong place) of the hinge prevents it from resetting easily.
One test refused to include the CQR in its summary because its performance didn't merit it. And it was the most expensive.

 

[mainsail1]

My test of a good anchor is will it hold in the anchorage at Dartmouth? Where I have seen many boats drag and drag on the turn of the tide. The CQR let me down many times. The Manson supreme has not dragged yet.

 

[Stemar]

There's the problem, right there.

You should use what all the locals, readers here, have all learned to use..... a 45lb Rocna with a 50lb Mantus in tandem, and 60 metres of 10mm chain, in Newton Creek....

Keep your provincial notions where they belong!

In Newton Creek, that's just about enough for a Snappie. What do the big boys use?

 

[lustyd]

What a waste of time, it's like saying a Trabant is as good as a Bugatti Veyron because both have engines and brakes that work.

Surely better to compare an old cut & shut Vauxhall Nova with drum breaks with a brand new Astra? Both are working cars, both cost a reasonable sum. One has a weak point you kind of wish wasn't there, and will stop at a red light if you know how to drive it. The other just stops at the red light even if you're not all that on the ball.
I don't think many people are claiming that a CQR won't hold a boat most of the time, but it takes a special sort of stubbornness to ignore the clear improvements that have been made over several decades. Modern anchors are clearly better than a CQR from any objective use. Whether expensive boutique modern anchors are worth the extra money over cheaper modern anchors is another question. If an anchor sets every time when you just throw it overboard with no further thought, then "better setting" is of no advantage. If a suitable size holds your boat in the strongest conceivable wind you'd be out in then "better holding" is of no advantage unless you can downsize and make the whole affair lighter. would I spend 4x the money for a lighter anchor? Maybe, given that even the expensive anchor costs less than the chain!

 

[Poignard]

I don't think anyone is claiming that the genuine CQR is the epitome of anchors, just that they are perfectly good enough for the circumstances in which most of us yachtsmen are likely to find ourselves.

If I thought for one moment that using my CQR was endangering my yacht and her crew I would replace it at once; whatever the cost. But I don't think that, so I won't be.

Last month I was anchored off Hoëdic and during the night the wind came onshore and increased dramatically. The noise and change of motion woke me at around 0200 so I let out a lot more chain, and kept an anchor watch for a couple of hours until things quietened down. Sitting up with coffee and a good book , and occasionally checking bearings, was no problem; in fact it was a beautiful clear night and I quite enjoyed it.

Even if I had a modern, and supposedly better, anchor, I would have done exactly the same.

The way I see it, that was the seamanlike thing to do.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Surely better to compare an old cut & shut Vauxhall Nova with drum breaks with a brand new Astra? ...

The metaphor is okay. The CQR is an anchor that works, like the Trabant. A new generation anchor has had more thought, experience, design and testing to offer greater functionality and reliability, like the Veyron.

There is no mileage in over analyzing the metaphor. The facts are well established. The CQR is surpassed in every way by NGA.

Testing the CQR today is pointless beyond whimsical interest. Justifying the CQR is simply an acceptance of an inadequate design.

For sone sailors the type of sailing they do and the security in anchoring that they need, a CQR will be satisfactory. For others it will not be. If there was not a need for improved anchors, NGA’s would not have been developed.

 

[lustyd]

I think the Veyron was a poor choice - it's exceptionally expensive and out of reach for normal people. The NGAs are not, with almost all of them costing less than the chain they connect to.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I think the Veyron was a poor choice - it's exceptionally expensive and out of reach for normal people. The NGAs are not, with almost all of them costing less than the chain they connect to.

Jeeze! There is at least one poster stating that NGAS are too expensive. Honestly, it’s just a metaphor, with little relevance beyond highlighting extremes of functional design. I am glad it has made you think about it though.