JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
If we want the British boat building industry to thrive, or maybe just to come back to life, we should not feel obliged to "big up" bad ideas. See also: GT35.
Could a Cornish Crabber 32 be ideal for me
- Thread starter ShinyShoe
- Start date
If we want the British boat building industry to thrive, or maybe just to come back to life, we should not feel obliged to "big up" bad ideas. See also: GT35.
Plum
Well-Known Member
Sorry to contradict but two pack varnish can be a good idea for a wooden mast on a gaffer. I have been using it on mine for over 16 years with no problems. I get between 5 and 6 years between revarnishing with no need to remove the varnish before recoating. I keep the gaff saddle leather well lubricated and it has never worn through the varnish.
Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk
sailorman
Well-Known Member
She is some what neglected on B pontoon, we have checked her lines these past 4 weeks
ShinyShoe
Well-Known Member
Well I should have known opening a thread on here with 'right boat for me' in the title would open a can of worms...
I'm not sure I have a view on preferred cabin design. Probably I need to develop one. I admit to a nostalgic (can you be nostalgic if you weren't there?) view on the tan gaff rig...
So as choices of sailing grounds go I either park boat somewhere like the West of Scotland and travel up there and just potter round there or (eek!) the Solent and do the Channel. Or get bored doing the East Coast...
Very true, and I'd prefer to spec my own electronics etc and connect them up so when they break I can fix em.
Maybe I'm mis-interpreting... I don't know if old is good. I've always understood the older, rounder, gaff rigged boats to be a tad slower but a tad more robust in a heavy sea. Does the YBW jury think thats complete nonsense? I had aimed to be clear in my OP that speed of going round was not an issue. If it takes 10 years that'd be fine. Everyone who posts about a circumnav is always told not to rush it (except the East Coast coz its boring!) So I don't think it matters if I am slow and ploddy about it...
I'm not sure I have a view on preferred cabin design. Probably I need to develop one. I admit to a nostalgic (can you be nostalgic if you weren't there?) view on the tan gaff rig...
I don't think I'm a statement kind of guy, although I did just buy a brand new car and have it wrapped in Orange Vinyl!! And I have just bought a trike pedal cycle. OMG! I'm having my mid-life crisis aren't I! But normally I'm not a 'look at me' guy. My first ever car lasted me 2 years, cost £350 new and about £500 in repairs over the 2 years, making its cost per year £425, or cost per month £35... ...My current car will probably cost me £200 a month (maybe more if I was brave enough to add it all up). I could have bought another Fiat Panda at a car auction and wrapped it in Orange... but value and turning the key and expecting it to work don't always seem to go hand in hand.
Can't disagree with that. It wont be happening at that price.
I may be being picky but the price on their website is just short of £140k, and even adding extras I think £200k is probably over estimating it. There is also mention of discounts for the first 5. (Do you think if I ask for 75% off they'd be interested?)
Speed is not too critical. I want to plod round the coast and see stuff.
What would the tooling costs really be? I have no idea of their financial position, but their newer boats have been virtually flying out the door.
Well I guess that may well be a good point. Say I said you could drive from Lands End to John O'Groats. You have two ways to do it. Option 1 is to drive straight there, non-stop unless you need to stop to refuel, eat or sleep. Option 2 is to do it over a period of time, taking your time and stopping lots to enjoy the nice bits. Which would you prefer? Now lets add to alternative means of doing the journey A in a modern family saloon car - lets make it a very average company car like a Vauxhall Vectra (the car equivalent of an AWB!) or B you can do it in a Morgan. I've never driven a Morgan but I suspect if you choose option 1, you choose car A because you need comfort/reliability to make the journey practical. If you choose option 2, then you might consider car B because it adds something to the journey?
Well maintenance can be planned to be minimised (coppercoat etc). But why can't I be lifted out somewhere near Lands End and John O'Groats if thats whats needed. For planned maintenance thats no biggy - you just need to plan when and where. (may want to in winter anyway / may not). Unplanned maintenance surely no different to doing it all at once? Except I'd have time (assuming the boat isn't leaking) to assemble goods, tools and parts before returning to carry out the work whereas time would be a pressure for going round in one...
That is without doubt my second biggest uncertainty. The biggest would be getting back to the start point from wherever I set off to retrieve car etc.
But unless I wait till I retire there will always be at least one deadline to return to work. Yes I understand I might be adding another 50 deadlines... ...And it is completely infeasible for me to have 3 months off work. I'd need to resign and get another job on return get another job. I couldn't be sure I'd secure the same salary to carry on paying off the payments to fund the trip - especially at £140+k
In terms of practicality I suspect the lack of inviting marina may be less of an issue that trying to get from A to B by road on the West of Scotland...? Lack of facility is not a major issue its a boat park in effect, but the boat does need to be able to get in there and park up.
On the North East Cost of England ;-)
So as choices of sailing grounds go I either park boat somewhere like the West of Scotland and travel up there and just potter round there or (eek!) the Solent and do the Channel. Or get bored doing the East Coast...
And most people like you seem to suggest the time is never long enough. I'd rather be sat at home for my weather stop and move the weekend I'm sailing to the following week etc than to be sat in a harbour praying for good weather. Yes I know there will be times I'd be able to sail Tues - Thurs and not weekends... But the overall venture has no defined end date. The only issue would be short term berthing costs...
I wonder how cheap that would be for drop off /pickup at some rural harbour... But its certainly a useful suggestion. I had wondered about buying a cheap banger to dump at the planned destination and then drive it back to the departure point and leave there till the next time and move it to the next destination...
i wouldn't alloy a gaff on a boat that size. But I don't see why I need to remove varnish to re-varnish...?
Yip
Thats what I was expecting...
Last edited:
FWB
N/A
If you really want a Gaffer then buy a real one. If £140k is ok then get a Heard and spend some of the rest doing it up. Bank the remainder to pay for your adventure.
dunedin
Well-Known Member
Not everybody wants an old boat and then spend time doing it up - if earning a good wage it can be better to spend more and buy newer. Time working on a boat is time not sailing
FWB
N/A
There is no comparison between a Heard and a modern one from Cornish Crabbers which will seem like a toy.
For that kind of money Sam Heard might even build a new one.
Last edited:
TheOldCodger
Member
There appears to be a lot of criticism on this thread of the Cornish Crabber range. This message will, I hope, begin to redress the balance. I am a supporter of all boats out of the Crabber range. I have owned a Mk 1 Shrimper, a Crabber 22, and presently own a Crabber 26. I think I can speak with a certain amount of authority on all of these boats.
Firstly contrary to other comments here - they are all well built boats. Of course from time to time there will be teething problems to sort out. To the best of my knowledge all boats have been built to order and very few if any sold from stock. This process ensures concentration on the owners order, and many owners I know spend time at the factory watching their boat emerging from its original mould and helping with speccing the final article,
The factory has moved on from the earlier days. It is now a very efficient operation. The owners of the factory are keen to develop their brand, and that is their right. If they find the customers then hats off to them. No-one is forced into buying a Crabber. Prospective owners still have free choice in the matter! The Shrimper19 itself is a huge success with around 1200 boats now built. The new Shrimper 21 is proving to be a success too. A good many C22s and C24s have been built too. The C26 which was launched about 5/6 years ago has also been a great success, and for those who poo-poo the coach roof styling - all I will say is each to their own, but I have had nothing but positive comments on my boat when I am in other marinas or on passage. And personally I find the space created below to be of huge advantage over the smaller models. The C26 is a fine and practical boat. I am not really a fan of the Bermudan rig options that are out there that Crabbers offer. But again if someone wants one - then fine - the factory will build one. The seagoing qualities of the range is terrific. A few years ago I sailed my Mk 1 Shrimper 19 from North Cornwall to Chichester Harbour and she coped wonderfully. As a new owner, one season of a C26 I can say she is living up to all my expectations in handling, quality of build, rig and onboard comfort.
Someone posted earlier using the Morgan motor car analogy. I couldn't agree more and have often said just that. The Morgan is handbuilt to order, as is much of any Shrimper or Crabber or Pilot Cutter 30 for that matter ( and there are some new ones of those about too). The buyers know exactly what they are getting, and have done their sums and comparisons with other boats. Oh and by the way not all the owners are retired folk at all! I know many younger owners.
If the new C32 come about, I am sure it will be a beautiful boat, and being from the design board of the late David Thomas, it deserves to be.
And yes they do hold their value well on the secondhand market unlike many other boats out there!
At the end of the day - you pays your money and you takes your choice. Let's hear from others who support the marque!
Happy Christmas - TheOldCodger
Firstly contrary to other comments here - they are all well built boats. Of course from time to time there will be teething problems to sort out. To the best of my knowledge all boats have been built to order and very few if any sold from stock. This process ensures concentration on the owners order, and many owners I know spend time at the factory watching their boat emerging from its original mould and helping with speccing the final article,
The factory has moved on from the earlier days. It is now a very efficient operation. The owners of the factory are keen to develop their brand, and that is their right. If they find the customers then hats off to them. No-one is forced into buying a Crabber. Prospective owners still have free choice in the matter! The Shrimper19 itself is a huge success with around 1200 boats now built. The new Shrimper 21 is proving to be a success too. A good many C22s and C24s have been built too. The C26 which was launched about 5/6 years ago has also been a great success, and for those who poo-poo the coach roof styling - all I will say is each to their own, but I have had nothing but positive comments on my boat when I am in other marinas or on passage. And personally I find the space created below to be of huge advantage over the smaller models. The C26 is a fine and practical boat. I am not really a fan of the Bermudan rig options that are out there that Crabbers offer. But again if someone wants one - then fine - the factory will build one. The seagoing qualities of the range is terrific. A few years ago I sailed my Mk 1 Shrimper 19 from North Cornwall to Chichester Harbour and she coped wonderfully. As a new owner, one season of a C26 I can say she is living up to all my expectations in handling, quality of build, rig and onboard comfort.
Someone posted earlier using the Morgan motor car analogy. I couldn't agree more and have often said just that. The Morgan is handbuilt to order, as is much of any Shrimper or Crabber or Pilot Cutter 30 for that matter ( and there are some new ones of those about too). The buyers know exactly what they are getting, and have done their sums and comparisons with other boats. Oh and by the way not all the owners are retired folk at all! I know many younger owners.
If the new C32 come about, I am sure it will be a beautiful boat, and being from the design board of the late David Thomas, it deserves to be.
And yes they do hold their value well on the secondhand market unlike many other boats out there!
At the end of the day - you pays your money and you takes your choice. Let's hear from others who support the marque!
Happy Christmas - TheOldCodger
ShinyShoe
Well-Known Member
Thanks Old Codger. I was begining to doubt my taste. However if I am being honest had I seen the £140k price tag before I posted I wouldn't have posted as it would take a Lottery Win to fund it for me, and if I win the lottery I might just turn into a Liveaboard as there will be no need for a job. I'm not knocking the price - like you say if they can find the customers...
Anyway that means I retreat to finding something suitable, if that task was ever to be done. So:
@TheOldCodger - while I know all of them can do a round Britain since a wayfarer can, in practical terms whats the most appropriate boat for my proposed venture? I guess if it was trailable then it means when major maintenance is needed it could be brought back to base to be done (not that base actually has the space for 25ft of boat on the driveway!)
CC knockers - I am hearing you on the Heards and certainly will take a look. I think the advantage of most of the CCs is they have a liftable keel so can cope better with shallow berths and as has been pointed out my choice of berth may be a little restricted in places so that can do no harm. It also means I may be able to get into or out of somewhere where the tide is not ideal -- which given time constraints I'd be running to might be useful. BUT is there a say 25-35ft Gaff Rigged, GRP Hulled, Traditional Looking Boat with twin keels or a lifting keel that I should be looking at?
Anyway that means I retreat to finding something suitable, if that task was ever to be done. So:
@TheOldCodger - while I know all of them can do a round Britain since a wayfarer can, in practical terms whats the most appropriate boat for my proposed venture? I guess if it was trailable then it means when major maintenance is needed it could be brought back to base to be done (not that base actually has the space for 25ft of boat on the driveway!)
CC knockers - I am hearing you on the Heards and certainly will take a look. I think the advantage of most of the CCs is they have a liftable keel so can cope better with shallow berths and as has been pointed out my choice of berth may be a little restricted in places so that can do no harm. It also means I may be able to get into or out of somewhere where the tide is not ideal -- which given time constraints I'd be running to might be useful. BUT is there a say 25-35ft Gaff Rigged, GRP Hulled, Traditional Looking Boat with twin keels or a lifting keel that I should be looking at?
FWB
N/A
Lifting keel then try to get a Crabber Pilot Cutter 30. They are fast and pretty...esp if you remove the pushpit,pulpit and guard rails 
. My friend has one and although I pull his leg about it not being a Heard, it's a very nice boat.
Here's his boat from mine
. My friend has one and although I pull his leg about it not being a Heard, it's a very nice boat.Here's his boat from mine
Seajet
...
I suspect fore and aft pulpits and guardrails evolved for a reason, if you'd rather do without then cut out the short delay sailing and just book in with a certain clinic in Switzerland. 
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Short answer is no - except for the Crabber 30 Pilot already referred to. Lifting keel boats in that size in any material or rig are rare this side of the Atlantic except for some AWB, mainly French. Some that you might think about are Deb 33, Barbican 33 and smaller Southerlies. If you widen your search to twin keels you will of course have a much greater choice of boats from the 70's and 80's, particularly from Westerly, Moody, Sadler, Mirage, Marcon etc, but won't have gaff rig.
Gaff rig is mostly associated with designs derived from working boats such as pilot cutters, fishing bawleys, oyster dredgers, lifeboats etc which are mainly deep keeled, heavy displacement hulls, or "pastiche" designs such as Crabbers, Golant, Norfolk Gypsy etc. The ones derived from working boats have an image of "seaworthiness", probably deriving from their use by many of the early ocean voyaging pioneers. However, it is important to recognise that their use was primarily because that is what was available and once design moved on, particularly with the advent of GRP, very different design principles came into use and replaced them. There is nothing inherently superior about the old designs - if there was they would still be popular.
So, in reality for your planned voyage there is no need to use an old design for any reason other than you like heavy old boats with complex rigs, limited accommodation for size and deep draft - but high aesthetic (for some) appeal. In practical terms almost any cruising boat of that size will be suitable - after all that is what most people use all round our coasts, and if drying out to explore drying harbours or tidal rivers (like Dylan Winter), then a twin keel boat such as a Sadler 29 or Westerly Konsort would be high on the list.
My personal choice to get a combination of modernity and tradition with the bonus of being able to dry out unaided, would be a Golden Hind 31. But then I am biased, having owned one of its smaller sisters for 35 years!
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
There is a lifting keel Hanse 311 for sale on the internet yacht sites at the moment
A rare bird with plenty of room & excellent sailing qualities especially for single handing
A rare bird with plenty of room & excellent sailing qualities especially for single handing
doug748
Well-Known Member
You will probably get more authoritative suggestions if you post a new query on the Classic forum and avoid the windy, patronising lectures into the bargain.
I have always liked the look of the Oysterman 22 but too short and a deep fixed keel rules that out:
http://dailyboats.com/boat/86728-oysterman-22-for-sale
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
The Frances 26 and Victoria 26 were available with gaff rig, but it wasn't very popular, to put it mildly. Somewhere between one and three gaffers sold.
ShinyShoe
Well-Known Member
Oooh she does look quite pretty. But yes the fixed keel does pose a problem. Could always leave SWMBO ashore to get round the space issue ;-)
ShinyShoe
Well-Known Member
Personal preference I think, but I like the front and back of my boats to look different. After 2pints I might not know if I'm going back or forward...!
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Meh, Transoms are for wimps.
eddystone
Well-Known Member
It is possible, just faintly, remotely possible, that CC know their market and potential purchasers a tad better than their naysayers of this forum - and getting people to pay a lot for a certain "brand value" is, as I understand it, what some/most businesses aim to achieve. They are not for me (although I did once own a small one) but I wish them every success rather than wishing them into bankruptcy.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Of course. It still doesn't mean that we should confuse a high specialised product for a tiny market with a resurgence in the industry as a whole. Cornish Crabbers do very well in their niche, and good luck to them. The GT35 was just a lousy idea from the start, and in that case the general opinion of the forum was spot-on.
