Costa Concordia (Titanic 2012)

[Seajet]

I'd think as long as injury is confined to ' a few bruises ' a chute of some kind may still be an idea; at least it gets people away from the ship, which may be on fire as well as sinking.

I suspect the really difficult bit would be co-ordinating a boat or raft to be on the receiving end; otherwise it might join the ranks of some aircraft escape systems I know, " we've never had any complaints " !

 

[Cruiser2B]

A few years ago they did a big BC Ferry exercise that utilized all the players in BC - CG, Navy, SAR, etc. I talked to some of the volunteer "passengers" after the fact and got the feeling from them that the escape chute (Marin Ark, iirc) in use at the time was effective but slow and awkward to use. Most of the volunteers were reasonably young and fit (navy, uni students, police, etc) so I think it could be extrapolated that they weren't the best option for the general hoi polloi, and not a very good option at all for the very young, the elderly and the infirm. I believe the BC Ferries have switched to the MES inflatable slides.

 

[Erik C]

I've done some training with the SKyscape chute system. I don't think it would be a very friendly escape method for most cruise passengers. It is fine in boots and coveralls, but you don't half collect bruises.
We were warned about having to pass through the net wall, outside, to bypass people frozen or unwilling to continue- in a real escape event -not a pleasant situation.
However you can't readliy fall out the spiral. Quite rapid - so long as people keep their wits about them.
I think there were some developed for cruise use - but I don't know if they have been deployed ?

I saw a documentary about a Norwegian ship, I think it was called FRAM, that had a similar escape system.

 

[Seajet]

I saw a documentary about a Norwegian ship, I think it was called FRAM, that had a similar escape system.

With a name like 'Fram', maybe the escape system had getting onto ice in mind ? This is not being sarcastic, just thinking of the historical name.

I still think inflatable slides or chutes must be the way to go - supplementary to traditional lifeboats, not instead of -, and suspect cost is a major reason they're not already in wide use; as always, the accountants will be keener on tiddly bits in the 'hotel' like chrome plated casinos to attract punters rather than safety kit !

Thinking along a bit, maybe detaching the slides from a sinking ship to give additional buoyancy / shelter might be the b version, with a lot of design work.

Just a thought, maybe I've watched 'Thunderbirds' once too often.

 

[Elessar]

Elessar,

sorry if I wasn't clear; I actually thanked you for putting me right politely, and mentioned to others that you were right and I was wrong...

I was not referring to you !

Andy

OK! too many posts here

 

[oldharry]

With a name like 'Fram', maybe the escape system had getting onto ice in mind ? This is not being sarcastic, just thinking of the historical name.

I still think inflatable slides or chutes must be the way to go - supplementary to traditional lifeboats, not instead of -, and suspect cost is a major reason they're not already in wide use; as always, the accountants will be keener on tiddly bits in the 'hotel' like chrome plated casinos to attract punters rather than safety kit !

Thinking along a bit, maybe detaching the slides from a sinking ship to give additional buoyancy / shelter might be the b version, with a lot of design work.

.

Often wondered about rapid evacuation of 4 or5k people from one of those monsters, particularly in a capsize situation as they faced here. Moving around at a slope is something we yotties may be used to, up to around 20 degrees - but think how much you have to hang on even at that angle moving around the boat, particularly below decks. Add a hefty dose of disorientation, panic, etc and the Titanic film makes it all look pretty orderly compared to reality, I suspect.

Re detaching the slides from a sinking ship - isnt that what aircraft escape chutes are designed to do in a water ditching scenario? The onboard safety card gives a pretty picture of people sliding down into liferafts. IIRC from the 'plane that landed in the Hudson, the doors were just about at the waterline once they started the evac, so I supect it doesnt work quite as well as the flight info card suggests. There they were all trying to stand on the wings as they got out hoping that the rescue boats would be able to pick them up. Quite a few had to enter the water in the end.

 

[3Sheets]

As the discussion has moved on to the lifeboats and evacuation methods, some of you may find this report interesting (warning it is quite long)

http://www.msc1206.com/trevor_w_ross_report.pdf

 

[sigmasailor]

After crying in the arms of a chaplain for 15 minutes Schettino was not declared to be hero, oh, no: he is a super hero!!....

Look here and click Google to translate: Super (cross out/Mario/cross out) Hero

Here is the google tranlation:

ISOLA DEL GIGLIO - The infamous captain Francesco Schettino, who caused the accident with the cruise ship Costa Concordia, cried soon after the disaster fifteen minutes as a child in the arms of the chaplain of the ship.

This is the 73-year-old chaplain Raffaele Malena confirmed.
The chaplain must have nothing of the criticism of the crew after the disaster. "My boys were not heroes but superheroes. They were frightened and threatened by angry passengers, but were courageous and have remained to the last, "said Malena chaplain. The spiritual admits that a mistake has been made by so close to the island of Isola del Giglio to sail, but he wants to give no opinion on. "We do the experts," said Malena.

 

[Seajet]

Are you sure they said 'hero' ? One 4 letter word may get substituted for another in translation !

 

[Seajet]

Re detaching the slides from a sinking ship - isnt that what aircraft escape chutes are designed to do in a water ditching scenario? The onboard safety card gives a pretty picture of people sliding down into liferafts. IIRC from the 'plane that landed in the Hudson, the doors were just about at the waterline once they started the evac, so I supect it doesnt work quite as well as the flight info card suggests. There they were all trying to stand on the wings as they got out hoping that the rescue boats would be able to pick them up. Quite a few had to enter the water in the end.

Old Harry,

when we were developing the updated Sea Harrier, we used a heavily modified HS125 business jet as a test-bed for the radar etc.

One of the technicians had just done his survival course at Mountbatten, Plymouth, and objected and refused to fly in it due to the fact the aircraft was carrying a very heavy chemical loo ( unlike any make I've ever seen, must have weighed 100lbs + ) out in the open where no-one would use it, but there was no liferaft.

He made himself unpopular with this but I agreed with him 100%.

While the chances of surviving a ditching in a jet are slim, I thought he was talking sense; more to the point I'm sure if I was found bobbing around in the wreckage clinging to a floating loo, the first instinct of the rescue crews would be to reach for their phone cameras, I'd be on Youtube before reaching the shore !

 

[Giblets]

I have seen a statement in an industry forum that Italy does not have any equivalent to the MAIB. The Italian Coast Guard is the responsible body (= MCA, here) and there is no independent investigatory agency like the MAIB.

I am sure I read somewhere that the Italians had called in the MAIB to assist in the investigation.

 

[VicS]

I am sure I read somewhere that the Italians had called in the MAIB to assist in the investigation.

I remember seeing that. ... no idea where or if it is correct.

 

[Stork_III]

I remember seeing that. ... no idea where or if it is correct.

Minn in post 30 "speculates" that MAIB may have been contacted.

 

[Kukri]

Yes, I think it is very likely but I did not mean to start a hare running!

 

[Observer]

If the pre-impact seamanship had been just half as good as the post-impact seamanship, we wouldn't be discussing the topic now.

I think the truth is there was no shortage of seamanship ability but a disastrous shortfall of application of it. Is there really any doubt that there were insufficient resources to construct a passage plan to include a close but safe pass of the island? Did the ship not have autopilot that would have executed the passage plan automatically? Under watchful monitoring of a bridge team ready to intervene if pre-calculated, distance off points were not achieved.

The facts are it seems that Schettino's urge to show off expressed itself in not only a very close pass of the harbour but also a high speed pass and not only those but a tight approach and sharp turn onto the home straight and not only all that but, the crowning triumph, all of the above under manual control of the brilliant, the magnificent Schettino.

And then, of course, you ask "What makes a man behave like that?". Cherchez la femme?

 

[alant]

I think the truth is there was no shortage of seamanship ability but a disastrous shortfall of application of it. Is there really any doubt that there were insufficient resources to construct a passage plan to include a close but safe pass of the island? Did the ship not have autopilot that would have executed the passage plan automatically? Under watchful monitoring of a bridge team ready to intervene if pre-calculated, distance off points were not achieved.

The facts are it seems that Schettino's urge to show off expressed itself in not only a very close pass of the harbour but also a high speed pass and not only those but a tight approach and sharp turn onto the home straight and not only all that but, the crowning triumph, all of the above under manual control of the brilliant, the magnificent Schettino.

And then, of course, you ask "What makes a man behave like that?". Cherchez la femme?

BBC reporter now saying that the captain was asked by Costa execs to do a sail past, for publicity purposes.

Can't sack him for that then, they got it in spades!

 

[Twister_Ken]

sail past, for publicity purposes.

In the dark, in mid-winter, off an island populated only by the islanders, while the passengers are all tucking into la cucina italiana? Don't get it myself.

Plus, even if requested so to do, he should have been capable of executing the manoeuvre safely.

 

[westernman]

In the dark, in mid-winter, off an island populated only by the islanders, while the passengers are all tucking into la cucina italiana? Don't get it myself.

Plus, even if requested so to do, he should have been capable of executing the manoeuvre safely.

And as captain it his responsibility to refuse to do it, if it cannot be done safely.

 

[colhel]

Don't know if this has been posted yet. It shows the ship taking a route closer to the island last year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16607837

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Assuming his estimate is correct the captain was still on board when there were only 300 people left on board. (About one lifeboat worth???)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16671141

So either he waited while 4000 people got off and then suddenly become an evil coward, or the evil coward story will turn out to be a gross oversimplification.

Which is what I thought all along.