Costa Concordia (Titanic 2012)

[Kukri]

In my dreams, I imagine a passenger ship having a row of free fall boats which would be entered with the boat horizontal; the boat's CofG would change once full and by releasing the first pin it would slowly rotate to the launch position, bows down, under gravity; the second pin would then be pulled in the usual way and the boat would launch.

There's probably a good reason for not doing this, apart from cost.

 

[photodog]

In my dreams, I imagine a passenger ship having a row of free fall boats which would be entered with the boat horizontal; the boat's CofG would change once full and by releasing the first pin it would slowly rotate to the launch position, bows down, under gravity; the second pin would then be pulled in the usual way and the boat would launch.

There's probably a good reason for not doing this, apart from cost.

All those 80 year olds in the wheelchairs are gonna dig the 20 meter freefall under gravity and the rapid deacceleration when they hit the water...

 

[tony_lavelle]

Where did the detailed AIS data come from?

The QPS site (http://www.qps.nl) does not say where they got the data from, though it does look genuine. However in the commentary to one of the many copies of the QPS video, I think it said that someone on the island had privately recorded the AIS transmissions.

The commentary by the US coastguard assumes that there was wind and current and that the ship had rudder steering after losing power, so his remarks are highly questionable. Did the CC have a rudder?

I have seen mention that captain Roberto Bosio of another Costa cruise ship, the Serena, was on board as a passenger and that he may have taken charge when Schettino "lost it". Apart from Schettino's claims we don't know who was in charge after the extent of the damage became clear.

It's quite likely that whoever took over told Schettino to get lost and that by going ashore he was doing everyone a favour. He may even have been understandably threatened with violence by crew and passengers.

 

[nigel1]

All those 80 year olds in the wheelchairs are gonna dig the 20 meter freefall under gravity and the rapid deacceleration when they hit the water...

never mind an 80yr old in a wheel chair, I bricked it when having to suffer a drop in free fall boat, not my idea of fun.

 

[Bajansailor]

I have seen mention that the captain of another Costa cruse ship (the Serena?) was on board as a passenger and that he may have taken charge when Schettino "lost it".

According to this report in the Telegraph, the passenger Captain was simply hitch-hiking home....
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...raceful-says-cruise-ships-reluctant-hero.html

 

[Kukri]

@ Nigel 1 - Tastes differ; I rather like it!

But, seriously, because cruise ships use davit launched boats very regularly, they ought to work well enough.

And indeed we can see that the boats on the "Costa Concordia" seem to have worked pretty well.

 

[nigel1]

I wondered that as well. It's certainly a compelling and convincing account of what may have happened or what did happen. The track shows many labels with times on them, implying that they are based on AIS or other similar data. There is also the label attached to the ship icon which shows continuously varying values for heading, SOG and COG, suggesting to me that they are interpolations from the known points. Oddly, the rate of turn is always zero, and I'm not sure what to make of that.

I've not really looked into the AIS data, but a lot of sites such as Marine traffic are a bit selective in what they display.
For example, just found my ship on marine traffic and our Status is shown as Moored/Anchored. For a fact I know I am standing by at No.2 Anchor Buoy of the Castoro Sei, and my Nav Status is RAM.
I assume that as my SOG is just about zero, the AIS receiver has assumed that the ship is either anchored or moored.
Never make assumptions based on scanty information

 

[Elessar]

I've been wrong about this before - as was gleefully pointed out by some prat keener to have a go at me than discuss the notion - but in Pic 4 on that link, is it an anchor chain in the background ?

I still think it would be lucky to deploy an anchor in the time available, but someone said he did it...

thanks for that. Why was I a "prat"

 

[nigel1]

@ Nigel 1 - Tastes differ; I rather like it!

But, seriously, because cruise ships use davit launched boats very regularly, they ought to work well enough.

And indeed we can see that the boats on the "Costa Concordia" seem to have worked pretty well.

They did, which was a relief, considering the spate of lifeboat accidents over the past few years, which occur in the calm of a routine drill.
Dollar to donuts, the whole issue of Class 1 vessels evacuation systems is going to be looked at in detail.

 

[Kukri]

They did, which was a relief, considering the spate of lifeboat accidents over the past few years, which occur in the calm of a routine drill.
Dollar to donuts, the whole issue of Class 1 vessels evacuation systems is going to be looked at in detail.

!

Keep your dollar! But shall we take a stab at when? - IMO Maritime Safety Committee 90th session 16th May to 25th May 2012!

 

[VicS]

Not sure I understand where the data for this has cone from. I thought there were gaps in the AIS record. Is there a new source of continuous position data that has allowed this reconstruction to be made with reliable accuracy? Or is it just a plausible computer model of what may have happened?

The commentary on the gcaptain.com does say that it is "AIS data from the ship itself"

 

[pagoda]

never mind an 80yr old in a wheel chair, I bricked it when having to suffer a drop in free fall boat, not my idea of fun.

I don't think free- fall boats are a practical proposition for passenger carriers. Dropping & launching is not a problem once you are strapped in correctly. (having done test drops from 28m...) - It is good fun mind you
But I think most cruise passengers lack the discipline required - and the training required.
Just keep them for oil / gas installations / hadardous cargo environments.
Once a vessel is listing badly - they are no more launch - able than conventional falls boats. That's why on chemical tankers they face aft over the stern. Quick get away....
The problem is compounded by the illusion that you're in a hotel - not a ship, having said that.. I check fire escapes in hotels myself.
Expect some changes in requirements for boat drills.

 

[haydude]

The QPS site (http://www.qps.nl) does not say where they got the data from, though it does look genuine. However in the commentary to one of the many copies of the QPS video, I think it said that someone on the island had privately recorded the AIS transmissions.

I searched the internet for such data, but I could not find anything more fine grained than what provided by marinetraffic.com. which we know only keeps low resolution records. If there was somebody on the Island with a recording more fine grained data this would not be available to QPS only, so, until confirmed otherwise we have to take that data as an hypothetical reconstruction that fills the gaps.

The commentary by the US coastguard assumes that there was wind and current and that the ship had rudder steering after losing power, so his remarks are highly questionable. Did the CC have a rudder?

I am surprised that someone supposedly authoritative like the US CG could make such an unprofessional assumption.

The area has negligible tidal currents. Also the night was calm without any breeze. Pictures and videos are also clear evidence.

I have seen mention that captain Roberto Bosio of another Costa cruise ship, the Serena, was on board as a passenger and that he may have taken charge when Schettino "lost it". Apart from Schettino's claims we don't know who was in charge after the extent of the damage became clear.

Captain Bosio actually said and I quote: "I just happened to be there, we looked each others in the eyes [other crew?] and we just got on with it [rescue]".

All the rest is media fabrication just to slap and keep the news on the front page. The Telegraph also refers to transcripts from the "black box" when these have yet to be revealed, which confirms that The Telegraph is just a Tabloid in disguise. All it is available right now are passengers' own recordings, a VHF conversation on Ch 16 recorded by a third party and a telephone call recorded by the port authorities.

I believe that the most despicable and irresponsible behaviour is that of the media, by publishing fragmentary information and speculations making them pass as facts.

The black box has been recovered.
Now also the hard disk with the ship CC video has been recovered.

According to Italian law that evidence is not supposed to be made public because there is a criminal investigation still open, unless special authorizations are provided or "it is leaked" otherwise.

Therefore we might have to wait some time to learn what really happened.

 

[mikefleetwood]

If the pre-impact seamanship had been just half as good as the post-impact seamanship, we wouldn't be discussing the topic now.

Can't argue with that!

 

[Seajet]

thanks for that. Why was I a "prat"

Elessar,

sorry if I wasn't clear; I actually thanked you for putting me right politely, and mentioned to others that you were right and I was wrong...

I was not referring to you !

Andy

 

[Cruiser2B]

Thats been tried and tested in the past. Basically it was similar to the sort of chutes you see at building sites in which they send down the rubbish.
On a passenger ship, the chute ended in a liferaft.
This system came about for the reason as many have pointed out, how do you safely evacuate a few thousand people from a ship.
Unfortunately, during the trials there was an incident, if I remember correctly, a young lady died during the descent through the chute when somehow she ended up bent doubled and jammed in the chute.

I always thought those loose sock chutes were inadequate - something like this would be suitable perhaps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihPruf2Cn6k&feature=related

 

[Kukri]

I have seen a statement in an industry forum that Italy does not have any equivalent to the MAIB. The Italian Coast Guard is the responsible body (= MCA, here) and there is no independent investigatory agency like the MAIB.

 

[alant]

I have seen a statement in an industry forum that Italy does not have any equivalent to the MAIB. The Italian Coast Guard is the responsible body (= MCA, here) and there is no independent investigatory agency like the MAIB.

MAIBY its because they don't have any accidents in Italy!

 

[pagoda]

I always thought those loose sock chutes were inadequate - something like this would be suitable perhaps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihPruf2Cn6k&feature=related

I've done some training with the SKyscape chute system. I don't think it would be a very friendly escape method for most cruise passengers. It is fine in boots and coveralls, but you don't half collect bruises.
We were warned about having to pass through the net wall, outside, to bypass people frozen or unwilling to continue- in a real escape event -not a pleasant situation.
However you can't readliy fall out the spiral. Quite rapid - so long as people keep their wits about them.
I think there were some developed for cruise use - but I don't know if they have been deployed ?

 

[Destinytide]

Costa Concordia

Feel so sorry for the people lost at sea. Although we have a motor boat we are also going on a cruise in February but I reckon it will be safest time to travel. Please can anyone help me as to how to start a new thread as we really could do with some help as Newbies to boating and we cannot find our fuses on board our Birchwood 330 Challenger. I will post a new one but cannot see how to start definitely blond senior moment.