sigmasailor
New member
Something like this:
Costa Concordia (Titanic 2012)
- Thread starter RichardTaylor
- Start date
yellowspinnaker
Member
This story has many twists and turns, and there are similarities with the world of air travel, where aircraft manufacturers and airlines really don't want people thinking there's anything wrong with their aircraft. There's often a bit of a PR twist in their press releases erring towards a 'Pilot Error' conclusion.
Now that Clarence Mitchell, no less, is in charge of the company's PR and 'reputation management' we may see a definite bias. I have already been taking press releases about this tragedy with a pinch of salt, I shall now be taking them with a massive spoonful of the same.
Now that Clarence Mitchell, no less, is in charge of the company's PR and 'reputation management' we may see a definite bias. I have already been taking press releases about this tragedy with a pinch of salt, I shall now be taking them with a massive spoonful of the same.
Seajet
...
Assuming his estimate is correct the captain was still on board when there were only 300 people left on board. (About one lifeboat worth???)
What sort of lifeboat is that then ?!
The ones I've seen might take 30, but not 300 no matter how enthusiastic people may be to get on...
What sort of lifeboat is that then ?!
The ones I've seen might take 30, but not 300 no matter how enthusiastic people may be to get on...
toad_oftoadhall
New member
I seem to remember someone saying th elifeboats took 300 on this thread, but I wasn't sure so I put a question mark.
According to the interweb there were 25 lifeboats taking about 3000 people in total. So over 100 people per boat. Hopefully someone (Minn?) will give the definitive answer shortly.
joe17
Member
Does it really? Certainly much further off the rocks the january trip hit (and much further off where it is now).
The only point it is nearer is after the point where the 13.1 collision happened.
toad_oftoadhall
New member
I would guess even if true I doubt it would be of much use as a defence against manslaughter because I would also guess it's the Captain's job not to hit any islands. Including ones he's been close to before.
Thanks to Colhel for post though, I hadn't seen it and it's interesting.
maxi77
Active member
I must admit I get the impression various organisations are trying to ensure the cxaptain is the scapegoat forc everything. Every now and then little bits slip out that indicate that all we are being told is not quites it seems.
Perhaps we might be better to wait for some real facts before setting up the crucifiction
Perhaps we might be better to wait for some real facts before setting up the crucifiction
david_bagshaw
Well-known member
Kukri
Well-known member
Let's see if we can form a guesstimate.
She's a Class 1 passenger ship on long international voyages, so the Safety of Life at Sea Convention requires her to carry sufficient lifeboats for 50% of the complement on each side, plus a further 12.5% in the form of liferafts.
Photos from before the loss show 13 boats in davits on each side three of which appear to be double hulled launches, leaving ten large lifeboats.
We haven't seen her passenger certificate but we know she had 4.200-odd on board (we don't know if that is all that she can carry - there may have been empty bunks and cabins)
So let's guess at 2,200 people to be accomodated in the 13 boats on each side. I'm going to guess at 200 in each lifeboat and the remainder in the three smaller launches.
sailorman
Well-known member
It now seems they have found a body that wasnt on any crew / passenger list 
toad_oftoadhall
New member
It now seems they have found a body that wasnt on any crew / passenger list
If I was the Captain, I'd blame him!!!!
joe17
Member
Certainly no defence that he had missed them before.
The earlier track looks quite sensible - a flatter angle which means running parallel to the shore and keeping in the deep water. The Jan track is heading straight in head on and a sharp turn - why do that in a ship that big?
Programming that into an autopilot must be interestings. How to calculate the distances to ensure the turn happens in time so you end up close, but not too close?
Stork_III
Well-known member
But on adifferent approach, I think. It's been posted much, much earlier in the thread.
Stork_III
Well-known member
I thought 9 LB/ side with various other liferafts, which are allowed to cover maximum 25% of ships's complement.
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Kukri
Well-known member
Plot the course. Consider the usual hazards of wind weather visibility and tide and currents.
1.Check for hazards on and near the track, mark them and check that you can manoevre clear at any point should anything happen. Use the advance and transfer diagram to check this.
2. Set up a parallel index on the north up relatve motion radar as a check on cross track error. Have an officer checking this.
3. Overlay the radar plot on the ECDIS to be quite sure that the chart datum accords with the GPS
4. Off you go.
This ship is on the recommended track for this passage.
1.Check for hazards on and near the track, mark them and check that you can manoevre clear at any point should anything happen. Use the advance and transfer diagram to check this.
2. Set up a parallel index on the north up relatve motion radar as a check on cross track error. Have an officer checking this.
3. Overlay the radar plot on the ECDIS to be quite sure that the chart datum accords with the GPS
4. Off you go.
This ship is on the recommended track for this passage.
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maxi77
Active member
It doesn't need to be relative motion, bog standard north up PPI works fine. Did one passage up the Inner Lead from the Hardanger Fiord to Bergen when we lost the fiord sides in the radar dead range but were still parralel indexing ahead and asterd. It was a rather old radar set, only slightly upgraded from the WW2 verasion.
nigel1
Active member
Lifeboats on Class 1 vessels
(1) This regulation applies to ships of Class I.
(2) Every ship shall carry:
(a) on each side of the ship lifeboats of sufficient aggregate capacity to accommodate one half of the total number of persons which the ship is certified to carry; or
(b) lifeboats and liferafts together providing sufficient aggregate capacity to accommodate the total number of persons which the ship is certified to carry: provided that there shall never be less than sufficient lifeboats on each side of the ship to accommodate 37.5 per cent of the total number of persons which the ship is certified to carry: except that in the case of any ship constructed before 25th May 1980, this provision shall apply only if the total number of persons on board is not treated as increased a result of the provision of liferafts.
So far as I am aware, the maximum carrying capacity of a lifeboat is still set at 150 persons.
Also note, these are SOLAS minimum requirements for LSA. Unfortunately, most ship owners interpret this as maximum
(1) This regulation applies to ships of Class I.
(2) Every ship shall carry:
(a) on each side of the ship lifeboats of sufficient aggregate capacity to accommodate one half of the total number of persons which the ship is certified to carry; or
(b) lifeboats and liferafts together providing sufficient aggregate capacity to accommodate the total number of persons which the ship is certified to carry: provided that there shall never be less than sufficient lifeboats on each side of the ship to accommodate 37.5 per cent of the total number of persons which the ship is certified to carry: except that in the case of any ship constructed before 25th May 1980, this provision shall apply only if the total number of persons on board is not treated as increased a result of the provision of liferafts.
So far as I am aware, the maximum carrying capacity of a lifeboat is still set at 150 persons.
Also note, these are SOLAS minimum requirements for LSA. Unfortunately, most ship owners interpret this as maximum
Blueboatman
Well-known member
Re Minn:
QUOTE.---1Check for hazards on and near the track, mark them and check that you can manoevre clear at any point should anything happen. Use the advance and transfer diagram to check this.
2. Set up a parallel index on the north up relatve motion radar as a check on cross track error. Have an officer checking this.
3. Overlay the radar plot on the ECDIS to be quite sure that the chart datum accords with the GPS. ---QUOTE
I am going to have to go and look this up somewhere, parallel indexing, overlaying AND monitoring for get-out permutations sound like something a decent bit of software could do but, if it has to be done manually, I suspect it ain't exactly taught by the RYA yachmaster schools?
First step The Big Book of Radar assisted Collision perhaps or some suchlike tome.
Seriously, that does all sound very useful to have at least a working knowledge of, hey ho, so much to learn
QUOTE.---1Check for hazards on and near the track, mark them and check that you can manoevre clear at any point should anything happen. Use the advance and transfer diagram to check this.
2. Set up a parallel index on the north up relatve motion radar as a check on cross track error. Have an officer checking this.
3. Overlay the radar plot on the ECDIS to be quite sure that the chart datum accords with the GPS. ---QUOTE
I am going to have to go and look this up somewhere, parallel indexing, overlaying AND monitoring for get-out permutations sound like something a decent bit of software could do but, if it has to be done manually, I suspect it ain't exactly taught by the RYA yachmaster schools?
First step The Big Book of Radar assisted Collision perhaps or some suchlike tome.
Seriously, that does all sound very useful to have at least a working knowledge of, hey ho, so much to learn
maxi77
Active member
I am going to have to go and look this up somewhere, parallel indexing, overlaying AND monitoring for get-out permutations sound like something a decent bit of software could do but, if it has to be done manually, I suspect it ain't exactly taught by the RYA yachmaster schools?
First step The Big Book of Radar assisted Collision perhaps or some suchlike tome.
Seriously, that does all sound very useful to have at least a working knowledge of, hey ho, so much to learn
That is the joy of parralel indexing, no fancy software, just a standard PPI, a chinagraph pencil, and a ruler, and of you go.
I am sure you could achieve the same with todays floating EBLs but I have not tried it.
