Costa Concordia (Titanic 2012)

[haydude]

Could it be a massive GPS error?

Could it be a massive GPS error?

Looking at marinetraffic.com the ship last reported position is about half mile out to see in deep waters. At first I thought that marinetraffic.com did not have all the data to the last minute.

However now it is clear that the ship run aground where she is lying now right at the time of the last reported postion which is 22:02 GMT+1. 21:02 GMT. That position standing to marinetraffic.com is in about 80m depth, quite far from the shore.

We all know that AIS has his own dedicated GPS receiver and antenna. So would the orange/black boxes as well.

What if the crew was mislead by a massive GPS error and realized that they were too close only when it was too late to turn? At that time Phobos Grunt was orbiting the earth fast, could that have had an impact introducing an error to the GPS signal?

 

[Kukri]

Any competent crew would know this; they practice this in simulators. With over 4000 lives and an investment of 3/450.000.000 (euro's USD or GBP) you simply do not take any changes but apply a safety margin of, let's say, at least a factor 10. I wonder what company policy has to say about this. I also wonder how the policy is enforced; I have seen evidence on the internet of really close (unnecessary) passing of the same island. The company cannot pretend to be unaware of the close passing in the past. In Dutch we have a good word for this: 'gedogen'. I hate it.

Eric

Eric

Yes of course I was just explaining for people who may not know

 

[Kukri]

ah. Bow Thrusters ?

are not they used for manouvering in confined places ?

Thrusters don't work at speed. There was a theory that they did, back n the early 80's but I think its been given over.

 

[stillwaters]

As I said yesterday in the Lounge.

'There's a 16 minute gap between the second and third last AIS positions during which anything could have happened. The 'track' is simply a line joining these two positions, the ship could have been anywhere between them.'

Fair point but maybe a post made by BartW on the motorboat forum thread "cruise ship runs aground off Italian coast" claims that there is a submerged rock 4m below the surface which is a locally well known dive site. Others on the thread show charts with its position marked,seems very adjacent to the last AIS fix on marinetraffic. If this IS what she hit and then she was subsequently turned in a hurry to get back to where she is now it could explain her listing the opposite way to the expected. BTW,maybe the electrical failure upon collision was the reason for the AIS not continuing to transmit?

 

[Erik C]

Apparently the wreck has shifted due to wave action and the divers have been pulled out. Now looking to use explosives to blow holes in the side of the ship to get access to yet unexplored areas in the search for survivors.

 

[SailorBill]

The death toll now stands at six.

The CEO of Costa Cruises, the owner of the ship that ran aground off Italy, says the captain made an "unapproved, unauthorized" deviation in course. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16576979

 

[sigmasailor]

BTW,maybe the electrical failure upon collision was the reason for the AIS not continuing to transmit?

One would expect all critical equipment (including navigational equipment) to run off a no break system. In my marine engineer day (35 years ago) we had batteries (ordinary lead/acid) just for that. Adequate (just) emergency lights would enable the crew to correct the black-out. On some ships I sailed on an emergency generator started automatically giving more power within a minute. Depending on the problem (usually false alarms) it would take some more minutes to restart the main engine (would still be turning by speed of the ship) after restarting all required pumps (cooling, fuel, lub oil, etc.)

And yes, just as I expected the company didn't know (how can they say that with dry eyes) about 'unauthorised' deviations and now blame the captain. Sure, the captain is the first responsible in line. The CEO should have done something to enforce the rules years ago; this has to do with company policy.

 

[Kukri]

That is a very interesting statement by Costa. It confirms what one expected - that routeings are pre-planned, and to some extent checked - and incidentally it may well explain the AIS trace and the delay in sending a distress call.

 

[Seven Spades]

It is all very interesting but I would not be quick to condemn the Captain save for the fact that he seems to have left the ship at his earliest opportunity. I do not give any credence to the Italian ship owners immediate rush to blame the Captain. They just want to position them selves with the public and prosecutors (Corporate manslaughter charges might arise if they support their Captain).

It is possible that the charted depths were not correct or that there was indeed an uncharted rock. What followed the accident clearly saved many lives. It is quite wrong for the Italians to have arrested the Captain at this stage they should first find out what actually happened, examine the recordings and data. Then if there is a case bring charges.

300m is not that close, ships enter Portsmouth harbour every day in a narrower channel is that different? We will have to wait and see the report but we should really ignore the media as they really have no idea. Last night on the BBC news an expert told the interviewer that modern electronics are not going to detect uncharted rocks before you hit them and every time she responded with "yes but with all the modern technology..."

 

[sigmasailor]

When a ship enters port it prepares itself for that. Back-up generators on line, second steering gear switched on, slow down the ship, pilot, more crew on watch, etc. There is a reason for this.

I would guess main port entries are far better charted (and marked) than small ports on small islands where big ships have no business?

 

[stillwaters]

And yes, just as I expected the company didn't know (how can they say that with dry eyes) about 'unauthorised' deviations and now blame the captain. Sure, the captain is the first responsible in line. The CEO should have done something to enforce the rules years ago; this has to do with company policy.

Personally think you are absolutely right. However,despite the tradional Italian approach to flinging prosecutions around I do wonder whether Costa will be considered too important a revenue earner for Italy,especially in current climate,for the directors to be prosecuted even if considered guilty of anything and maybe,and very regrettably,the captain might find he ends up as the sole sacrificial lamb.

 

[Kukri]

Note the apparent gap in AIS transmissions - that could be accidental or it could be consistent with the transponder being manually disabled for the duation of the pass along the beach, which would fit with an unauthorised departure from the planned and approved route. Certainly the power supply would be un-interrupted.

A chart is only as good as the original survey, even on the best ECDIS, and every mariner knows, because the UKHO have told us often enough by now, that areas originally surveyed by lead line, sextant and station pointer may contain rock pinnacles that were missed on the original and later surveys.

 

[Seajet]

Well the fact remains, these sail-pasts - in the dark, during dinner - were of little or no entertainment benefit to the passengers; pandering to the ego of the Captain and a touch of old boys network seems more like it.

 

[Kukri]

Personally think you are absolutely right. However,despite the tradional Italian approach to flinging prosecutions around I do wonder whether Costa will be considered too important a revenue earner for Italy,especially in current climate,for the directors to be prosecuted even if considered guilty of anything and maybe,and very regrettably,the captain might find he ends up as the sole sacrificial lamb.

Make that the British and American economies, if you like - Costa are a wholly owned subsidiary of Carnival. But, as explained above, I think the company may well be in the right, here.

The data recorder has been recovered and will no doubt prove enlightening.

 

[Madeo]

For those of you who can read French, an interesting account from a couple of passengers...

http://www.sudouest.fr/2012/01/15/l-impensable-naufrage-605384-4710.php

 

[SailorBill]

Note the apparent gap in AIS transmissions - that could be accidental or it could be consistent with the transponder being manually disabled for the duation of the pass along the beach, which would fit with an unauthorised departure from the planned and approved route. Certainly the power supply would be un-interrupted.

I wondered about that earlier.

 

[Kukri]

For those of you who can read French, an interesting account from a couple of passengers...

http://www.sudouest.fr/2012/01/15/l-impensable-naufrage-605384-4710.php

Thanks - an unusually good passenger account. It's a funny thing, but there's nearly always some passengers taking the air on deck, and as eye witnesses they will be valuable.

 

[Kukri]

I noticed that either side of the 16 minute gap the positions were plotted more frequently. I wondered if the AIS transmitter had been deliberately turned off prior to turning towards the island for the sail-by, before the AIS transmitter was turned on again?

Yes, sorry I missed that. Agree entirely.

 

[BurnitBlue]

To have got 4000 landlubber passengers off a doomed cruise ship in the dark and at the start of a weekend is a "miracle" by any measure. Congratulations and large pats on the back are called for.

Well done I say.

 

[Seajet]

To have got 4000 landlubber passengers off a doomed cruise ship in the dark and at the start of a weekend is a "miracle" by any measure. Congratulations and large pats on the back are called for.

Well done I say.

Yes indeed; to the waiters & entertainment staff who actually stayed & helped, not the officers & seamen crew who bagged the lifeboats shoving women out of the way, if you believe the first hand accounts in the Mail today.