VicS
Well-known member
What do you reckon the beam dimension includes? The Bridge wings ?
Should be able to make a guesstimate from THIS PICTURE
The text with this picture gives the beam as 38m
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Costa Concordia (Titanic 2012)
- Thread starter RichardTaylor
- Start date
What do you reckon the beam dimension includes? The Bridge wings ?
Should be able to make a guesstimate from THIS PICTURE
The text with this picture gives the beam as 38m
Sailfree
Well-known member
Can't find the ships track now can someone point me in the right direction please.
VicS
Well-known member
Sybarite
Well-known member
The company web site gives it at 35.5m and 290 m long. for 114500 tons.
skipperRO
New member
Captain
I wonder how come no one here gives any credit to the captain! Only blames and cursing!
We don't know all the facets of the story yet, we only speculate. No one here was on his shoes, so let's not judge this man!
And the simple fact that he turned the ship on a dime with the anchor down, for 180 degrees and saved the ship (and the lives within) by resting her on shore rocks I see it as a great display of seamanship. IMHO.
For me it would be hard to do this maneuver with my 30' boat let alone with a ship 30 times longer!
I wonder how come no one here gives any credit to the captain! Only blames and cursing!
We don't know all the facets of the story yet, we only speculate. No one here was on his shoes, so let's not judge this man!
And the simple fact that he turned the ship on a dime with the anchor down, for 180 degrees and saved the ship (and the lives within) by resting her on shore rocks I see it as a great display of seamanship. IMHO.
For me it would be hard to do this maneuver with my 30' boat let alone with a ship 30 times longer!
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sailorman
Well-known member
The BBC 06.00 news stated the owners have stated that the skipper was at fault.didn't follow Co std procedures and was too close inshore.
Kukri
Well-known member
From the location of the visible damage, aft of the intact, deployed, stabiliser, one can see that, as I understand Captain Stettino to say, the ship was going sideways when she hit; in other words she was turning quite hard to starboard and the sideways component is the transfer.
So I guess they had found themselves too close in and were trying to go clear when they hit.
A question which is bound to arise, following the "LADY GWENDOLEN", is "what did the owners know about these "sightseeing detours", what should they have known, and in today's world with ISM, had a risk assessment been carried out and what procedures had been approved?"
So I guess they had found themselves too close in and were trying to go clear when they hit.
A question which is bound to arise, following the "LADY GWENDOLEN", is "what did the owners know about these "sightseeing detours", what should they have known, and in today's world with ISM, had a risk assessment been carried out and what procedures had been approved?"
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
Daily Telegraph has reported this am quotes from the prosecutor who is saying that the ship was doing a flyby of the port in honour of a fellow merchant navy officer.... and that this was a tradition..... That they then struck a reef know to locals as "Le Scole".
Apparently the tradition started when the wife of a former officer lived ashore there...
Apparently the tradition started when the wife of a former officer lived ashore there...
Metabarca
Well-known member
Can't be bothered to wade through 10 pages of posts, but here's what the Italian press was saying yesterday: the captain said there shouldn't have been a rock there: it should have been 150 metres away. He was 300 metres from the coast and reckoned that was ok!!! Apparently, this caper had been done in the past by another captain who was from the island and knew its waters intimately; presumably he didn't go in so close. Anyway, the ship hit the rock and after 2 minutes the lights went out. At that point, the captain knew the game was up and decided to head back towards Giglio and shallow water (since he was then heading out). To facilitate a quick turn, he dropped one or both anchors, and that probably saved a lot of lives as it enabled the ship to turn quickly. It was at this point that the ship listed over to the other side (revealing the gash). He only declared an SOS to the coastguard after the FOURTH call from the latter who said, 'look, a passenger's told us they're in life-jackets. What's up?'. Lots of stories of crew looking after themselves. One of the lifeboats was taken in charge by a passenger because the crewmen didn't know how to start the engine. Confirmed that captain was seen to abandon ship at midnight, 3 hours before the last passengers.
Metabarca
Well-known member
Photos of the interior underwater here. A real mess.
http://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/20...lla_concordia_sommersa-28144015/1/?ref=HREA-1
http://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/20...lla_concordia_sommersa-28144015/1/?ref=HREA-1
Capt Popeye
Well-known member
evidently from the reports so far, both good and bad become evident -
BAD point being that not all the Passengers had a 'life boat drill' before setting off on the Cruise, this would cause confusion and panic amoungst the Passengers that had a drill and knew their Muster Station, as their correct Muster Station would poss be overcrowded and those that had not had a Muster Drill would either follow other passengers to a wrong Muster Station and overload the Muster Area.
Also the member of Crew with a 'Passenger List' for that Muster Station would probably be overwhelmed by numbers and not be able to load the Lifeboats orderly and properly (each Muster Station has a designated Lifeboat with restricted seating in Lifeboat)
This lack of a proper drill amoungst some passengers might be the reason for the reports of Crewmen leaving in Life Rafts ahead of Passengers, Life Rafts are for Crewmen and Life Boats for Passengers
GOOD point being that according to some interviews by Crew to day, most of the Life Boats did get away with Passengers on board them, with the aid of some so designated Crew members who performed the Muster Drill very well, all credit to them
Must say that I have sailed on Celebrity, Royal Caribian and Olsen Liners in last few years and a Muster Drill was performed on every Liner before we left embarkation Port, with a Role Call of passengers taken at each Lifeboat Station, thank goodness
It would appear, from todays news, that Crew Members were allerted to a 'problem' and instructed to don lifejackets and to prepare for a problem quite a'while before the Passengers were informed, so the Muster Stations would appear to be ready for the Passengers
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WF36
Well-known member
Silly question maybe... But how on earth would a salvage company re-float this? Or cut it up?
sigmasailor
New member
Just leave that to Smit; they will do the job.
iain789
Active member
As I said yesterday in the Lounge.
'There's a 16 minute gap between the second and third last AIS positions during which anything could have happened. The 'track' is simply a line joining these two positions, the ship could have been anywhere between them.'
Kukri
Well-known member
A comment from a friend of mine with many years in command of passenger ships raises a couple of issues that have not been mentioned here yet.
He points out that the ship will almost certainly have been navigating using an approved ECDIS system.
A problem with these is that no chart can be better than the original survey, which was probably done in the first place with hand lead lines and sextants, with occasional resurveys in the following century and a half or so, but since rocks don't move and there's no oil in the area this would not have been a high priority area for resurveying.
However if you use a vector chart on a large scale it looks extremely "convincing" and you may come to think that you have more information than you really do have.
His other point is that having come in too close it can be difficult to get out again, owing to the problem of "transfer" in the turn, as I mentioned in my last post. Typically for a barge shaped hull like a cruise ship the pivot point will be about a third of the way from the bow, so the aft two thirds of the hull slides out in the opposite direction to the turn, along with the whole ship going sideways to some extent. Think of it as over-steer on a skid pan... once you are in too close you many not be able to go clear...
He points out that the ship will almost certainly have been navigating using an approved ECDIS system.
A problem with these is that no chart can be better than the original survey, which was probably done in the first place with hand lead lines and sextants, with occasional resurveys in the following century and a half or so, but since rocks don't move and there's no oil in the area this would not have been a high priority area for resurveying.
However if you use a vector chart on a large scale it looks extremely "convincing" and you may come to think that you have more information than you really do have.
His other point is that having come in too close it can be difficult to get out again, owing to the problem of "transfer" in the turn, as I mentioned in my last post. Typically for a barge shaped hull like a cruise ship the pivot point will be about a third of the way from the bow, so the aft two thirds of the hull slides out in the opposite direction to the turn, along with the whole ship going sideways to some extent. Think of it as over-steer on a skid pan... once you are in too close you many not be able to go clear...
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
In which case, this would be an extreme example of the problems of looking at a screen and not looking out of the window.
Capt Popeye
Well-known member
ah. Bow Thrusters ?
are not they used for manouvering in confined places ?
sigmasailor
New member
Any competent crew would know this; they practice this in simulators. With over 4000 lives and an investment of 3/450.000.000 (euro's USD or GBP) you simply do not take any changes but apply a safety margin of, let's say, at least a factor 10. I wonder what company policy has to say about this. I also wonder how the policy is enforced; I have seen evidence on the internet of really close (unnecessary) passing of the same island. The company cannot pretend to be unaware of the close passing in the past. In Dutch we have a good word for this: 'gedogen'. I hate it.
Eric
Eric
![[32511]](https://ybw-data.community.forum/avatars/m/32/32511.jpg?1576058889){kind=avatar}
[32511]
...
ah. Bow Thrusters ?
are not they used for manouvering in confined places ?
And kick the stern even further out!
SailorBill
New member
I noticed that either side of the 16 minute gap the positions were plotted more frequently. I wondered if the AIS transmitter had been deliberately turned off prior to turning towards the island for the sail-by, before the AIS transmitter was turned on again?
