Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race

[Neeves]

Where's the end of it?

How many lives could be saved by mandating helmets in automobiles?

It's not zero...

Heads already enjoy some protection, the seatbelt restrains the body which stops your head hitting anything in front of you and the headrest-restraint protects your head, and neck, from collision from behind.

My guess is (never guess) seatbelts have reduced the number of head injuries.

No-one, or very few, worries about the mandating of wearing of seatbelts

If mandating helmets was restricted to vessels likely to exceed 20 knots, a possibility, then it would not impact you not one iota. If an event in which you wish to participate mandates helmets you would have the choice to spend your time in a mall. No-one forces you to sail on a yacht where a skipper mandates life jackets will be worn or (maybe in the future) mandates all crew on deck will wear helmets, hardnesses, use tethers etc.

The race organisers demand sight of vessel insurance etc etc - most rules are developed to protect the innocent - which includes the crew, other boats/crews (which in turn protects the race organisers).

Jonathan

 

[Laser310]

If mandating helmets was restricted to vessels likely to exceed 20 knots, a possibility, then it would not impact you not one iota.

12,000 miles on gunboat catamarans that easily exceed 20kts, and i never wore a helmet, nor felt the need to.

 

[capnsensible]

I reckon that on some of the bigger yachts I've sailed, a whack on the head whilst wearing a helmet would give the undertaker a bit of a task picking bits of helmet out of my head.

Mebbe some of the smaller boats too....

I think though, I would support personal choice with this under cruising circumstances. Outside of sailing schools, I rarely see anyone wearing lifejackets all the time either.

 

[Beelzebub]

Having undergone brain surgery a couple of years ago, my GP has advised me to wear a helmet when sailing so I am currently looking for something suitable.

A few decades ago, while racing on an OOD34, my brother was caught by the mainsheet in a gybe, slamming his head against the aluminium tracks for the companionway washboards. For a couple of seconds he seemed fine and then a huge split opened up in his forehead and he collapsed onto the cockpit floor.

A quick return to port and an ambulance ride to hospital for him; fortunately there was no lasting damage but he still bears the scars over 40 years later.

A few weeks later, while racing on a Sigma 36, we were doing a headsail change in boisterous conditions with myself on the foredeck. We took off on a very big wave and I was temporarily airborne, only to land face-first on the deck. One hand for the job and one for yourself didn't do me much good on that occasion! Anyway, stunned and bleeding from my nose, I was taken off foredeck duties for the remainder of that race. My nose is still skewed to the right however.

 

[Neeves]

12,000 miles on gunboat catamarans that easily exceed 20kts, and i never wore a helmet, nor felt the need to.

I think you misunderstand....something

The CYCA, or other yachting organisations, might mandate the carrying of helmets, as they do for LJs and life rafts for all the crew but they do not mandate the wearing, or use, of same. Its a bit like anchors - there is a mandate they are carried but no mandate on use

There is no mandate from the clubs, usually, to the use of same - that's a decision the skipper makes. You can of course refuse to wear a LJ (or in the future, helmet) but it is unlikely you will be crew to the same skipper (or many other skippers) if you do not comply.

This fear of rules encroaching on your liberty is misjudged, unlike wearing of seatbelts.

Having undergone brain surgery a couple of years ago, my GP has advised me to wear a helmet when sailing so I am currently looking for something suitable.

A few decades ago, while racing on an OOD34, my brother was caught by the mainsheet in a gybe, slamming his head against the aluminium tracks for the companionway washboards. For a couple of seconds he seemed fine and then a huge split opened up in his forehead and he collapsed onto the cockpit floor.

A quick return to port and an ambulance ride to hospital for him; fortunately there was no lasting damage but he still bears the scars over 40 years later.

A few weeks later, while racing on a Sigma 36, we were doing a headsail change in boisterous conditions with myself on the foredeck. We took off on a very big wave and I was temporarily airborne, only to land face-first on the deck. One hand for the job and one for yourself didn't do me much good on that occasion! Anyway, stunned and bleeding from my nose, I was taken off foredeck duties for the remainder of that race. My nose is still skewed to the right however.

Practical Sailor (in America) had a number of articles on helmets, and I copy one here:

Superlight Helmet Suits Sailors - Practical Sailor

The article might be behind a paywall, I don't know - I'm a contributor, along with another member of the YBW forum, to the magazine and I get access.

If you can access the article in the link it should define where, Months and Years, other articles might be located. I think the article at the link is the most recent and has recommendations on a specific helmet, or helmets.

Sorry too hear about your nose - but both you and your brother escaped relatively lightly - it could have been so much worse.

I don't worry about dangerous sports, I've decided not to take up BASE jumping , - my concern is geriatric drivers

Thank you for posting

Jonathan

 

[Laser310]

The CYCA, or other yachting organisations, might mandate the carrying of helmets, as they do for LJs and life rafts for all the crew but they do not mandate the wearing, or use, of same. Its a bit like anchors - there is a mandate they are carried but no mandate on use

i'm not sure how you can be so certain of what any future rules about helmets might mandate...

there are already rules in some races that detail when a piece of required equipment _must_ be used.

The Newport-Bermuda race, for example, requires PFD's to be worn between sunset and sunrise, when a reef has been taken, when the wind speed exceeds 25kts, when the visibility is less than 1nm..

So, it's not obvious to me that any future rules requiring helmets to be carried won't also mandate that they be worn in certain conditions.

 

[Neeves]

i'm not sure how you can be so certain of what any future rules about helmets might mandate...

there are already rules in some races that detail when a piece of required equipment _must_ be used.

The Newport-Bermuda race, for example, requires PFD's to be worn between sunset and sunrise, when a reef has been taken, when the wind speed exceeds 25kts, when the visibility is less than 1nm..

So, it's not obvious to me that any future rules requiring helmets to be carried won't also mandate that they be worn in certain conditions.

You are correct, I cannot be sure.

But different jurisdictions develop different rules and how they are applied - their seems to be a greater acceptance, here, that the skipper 'knows best'. So...if carrying of helmets is mandated I see their use being the responsibility of the skipper - which is how many 'such' rules are applied, here.

Interestingly the Newport-Bermuda race rules would result in the demand that every participant wears a PFD as soon as the race commences and until they cross the finish line - for all recent Sydney/Hobarts.

Jonathan

 

[Neeves]

I pondered about the rules of the Newport Bermuda race

Who determines when the conditions are reached?

Is it really mandated that competitors must use a PFD if the visibility is less than 1nm or have I misread the conditions and its the combination that's important. Then I thought why are the, combined, conditions mandated - do Americans normally sail, race, in the dark in a 25 knot wind, 1 reef in the main etc and not use a PFD - I can then see the reason for it being mandatory.


To put into perspective .... The current enquiry is to be enacted by the CYCA for the recent Sydney Hobart race. There is no suggestion that any conclusions will be adopted by anyone else. Its a local enquiry for one specific race (that might, I assume, be extended to qualifying races in the future).

 

[Snowgoose-1]

I pondered about the rules of the Newport Bermuda race

Who determines when the conditions are reached?

Is it really mandated that competitors must use a PFD if the visibility is less than 1nm or have I misread the conditions and its the combination that's important. Then I thought why are the, combined, conditions mandated - do Americans normally sail, race, in the dark in a 25 knot wind, 1 reef in the main etc and not use a PFD - I can then see the reason for it being mandatory.


To put into perspective .... The current enquiry is to be enacted by the CYCA for the recent Sydney Hobart race. There is no suggestion that any conclusions will be adopted by anyone else. Its a local enquiry for one specific race (that might, I assume, be extended to qualifying races in the future).

Seems a shame that these rules have to be mandated.

Are some skippers that bad . A pal of mine used to crew on a racing yacht doing a number of cross Channel races and Fastnets. Not safety. but he couldn't even bring a paperback onboard. I find that troublesome .

 

[Laser310]

Is it really mandated that competitors must use a PFD if the visibility is less than 1nm...

The text from the 2024 Sailing Instructions is below. For some reason, it looks like the 2024 documents are no longer on the website; I hate it when races do that...

The RRS state that sailing instructions rank as rules of a race, but note that the code "[NP]" is used for the PFD rule

This means that a competitor can not protest another competitor for violating this rule - which is good, as the possibility for malicious protest is enormous.

10.2 [NP] Except while below decks, each competitor shall wear a Lifejacket and Safety Harness conforming to the NBRSR with due consideration of the water temperature and sea state:
a. between the hours of sunset and sunrise;
b. when alone on deck;
c. when the boat is reefed;
d. when the true wind speed is 25 knots or more;
e. when visibility is less than one (1) nautical mile; or
f. whenever the PIC or Reserve PIC requires.

Also, the 2024 RRS state that:

60.2 A race committee may
(a) protest a boat, but not as a result of information arising from a
request for redress or an invalid protest, or from a report from a
person with a conflict of interest other than the representative
of the boat herself;

The 2025 RRS changes the text, but I think the meaning is the same. So the possibility for a protest under this SI is pretty low.

On the boat I race on, we wear PFD's a lot, and I would say we have developed a pretty good culture of safety on board. We made a good faith effort to follow that SI. I think that's really what the organizers are looking for.

In the 2022 race, there was an MOB fatality (recovered dead) of a guy without a PFD. That same rule was in the 2022 rules, and I am pretty sure that the conditions the boat he fell off of would have met the requirement for wearing it - our boat was a few 10's of miles away, and we were wearing PFD's. The MOB was the owner. He was quite overweight and I think died of a heart attack. It's possible that the exertion of staying above the water in 6-8ft seas was too much for him, so a PFD might have saved him.

edited to add the SI text...

 

[Stemar]

I've got lazy about it since I had a cat that's not going to tip me off, but on a monohull, I try to make wearing an LJ as automatic as putting on my seat belt. Even on the cat, if things are a bit bumpy, we'll wear them.

 

[Neeves]

I've got lazy about it since I had a cat that's not going to tip me off, but on a monohull, I try to make wearing an LJ as automatic as putting on my seat belt. Even on the cat, if things are a bit bumpy, we'll wear them.

Its odd they did not mandate harnesses, tethers and being clipped on when on deck. If you stay on the boat you don't (in theory) need a PFD.

Tidying up a reef on a cat and standing on the saloon roof to effect same always seemed 'exposed' on a cat. Similarly working on the windward bow in chop - its a long way to the leeward side.

If you need a PFD, you need a harness, tether and be clipped on.

Jonathan

 

[noelex]

Sailors are uniquely positioned to assess the necessary safety equipment for their circumstances. Implementing mandatory equipment rarely yields significant benefits.

 

[William_H]

Sailors are uniquely positioned to assess the necessary safety equipment for their circumstances. Implementing mandatory equipment rarely yields significant benefits.

Yes a sailor is in the best position to assess need for using safety equipment. Simply because he is there. However it does not mean he has the right mind set to follow through sensibly. If we relied on people to use their common sense we would not have nay rules at all. (like motor car speed limits) No, people need more guidance (enforcement ) than just intuition at the time. ol'will