Common rail diesel engines

[vyv_cox]

The trend to install common rail diesels in boats has been well publicised. It has been brought home to me in a most expensive way just what a bad idea this is.

We were motoring down the A7 in Spain in our motorhome. All going perfectly well, then nothing. Completely dead. These vans have a tendency to leak rain water onto the engine, so not unlike conditions on a boat. The van has only done 66000 miles.

Once we had been towed off the motorway and found someone who was even prepared to look at it the investigation began, needing a code reader, fuel pressure gauges, etc. It was found that either the fuel pressure regulator valve or sensor had failed, both replaced so not sure exactly. But failure of the fuel supply at speed caused an injector to seize, new one purchased, three others serviced. This has taken two weeks and we still don't have the van back, hopefully later today. Meanwhile we have paid for a hire car and accommodation. Total cost not yet known but inevitably well into four figures.

Oh for a nice simple analogue engine!

 

[KevinV]

There's a lot to be said for KISS. Rotten luck

 

[fredrussell]

…Oh for a nice simple analogue engine!

Totally agree but I’d go one further and say oh for an electric motor; in the boat and in the car.

 

[Ammonite]

Sorry to hear about your woes. Very frustrating. On the brightside you have probably saved that much in fuel costs over 66,000 miles

 

[mrangry]

They are great when they go but very costly when they dont. Had a high pressure fuel pump go on an x5 which sent swarf throughout the whole fuel system. Tank and lines removed and flushed through and 6 new injectors and both fuel pumps…..nightmare of a job and expensive.

 

[RivalRedwing]

So does evidence indicate that rain water ingress was the ultimate culprit? I'm trying to link the (failed) pressure regulator valve & sensor to the rain water issue.

I guess a DV24 wouldn't be an easy replacement

 

[penberth3]

The trend to install common rail diesels in boats has been well publicised. It has been brought home to me in a most expensive way just what a bad idea this is.

We were motoring down the A7 in Spain in our motorhome. All going perfectly well, then nothing. Completely dead. These vans have a tendency to leak rain water onto the engine, so not unlike conditions on a boat. The van has only done 66000 miles.

Once we had been towed off the motorway and found someone who was even prepared to look at it the investigation began, needing a code reader, fuel pressure gauges, etc. It was found that either the fuel pressure regulator valve or sensor had failed, both replaced so not sure exactly. But failure of the fuel supply at speed caused an injector to seize, new one purchased, three others serviced. This has taken two weeks and we still don't have the van back, hopefully later today. Meanwhile we have paid for a hire car and accommodation. Total cost not yet known but inevitably well into four figures.

Oh for a nice simple analogue engine!

Bad news on the motorway and for boats at sea. It's actually dangerous and poor systems design when everything stops just because the computer says so. Even worse, we're losing resilience in the national infrastructure. Railways hit the headlines but it's frightening to think what else could go wrong.

 

[vyv_cox]

So does evidence indicate that rain water ingress was the ultimate culprit? I'm trying to link the (failed) pressure regulator valve & sensor to the rain water issue.

I guess a DV24 wouldn't be an easy replacement

Not sure about that but we have had previous problems with sensors and controllers on the front of the engine. None as severe as this one but there could well be a link.

I think it would take five D24s to match the power!

 

[MontyMariner]

Total cost not yet known but inevitably well into four figures.

A bit like a boat

 

[Farmer Piles]

All our farm diesel engines have been common rail for years now and never any problems with them. Only real issue can be with the very fine filters and biofuel or dirty fuel clogging them. When we are busy we burn 300l per day in the tractors and 400l in the combine.

 

[Dellquay13]

They are great when they go but very costly when they dont. Had a high pressure fuel pump go on an x5 which sent swarf throughout the whole fuel system. Tank and lines removed and flushed through and 6 new injectors and both fuel pumps…..nightmare of a job and expensive.

I had same on a VW, I followed my garages advice and sold it quick back to a main dealer before the swarf caused a problem

 

[Rappey]

Your a victim of very bad luck. Injectors can die prematurely or go on to 250k. If the rail is not within the correct pressures the injectors wont fire so as already mentioned , if the computer does not like what it think it sees then the engine stops. At least an older engine will only stop with mechanical failure.
There are suggestions from some injector specialists than a fuel additive/cleaner could dislodge minute particles which then go into the injector and destroy it.
I sold my last common rail car after10 years of ownership and a pretty poor maintenance schedule yet 273k miles later it ran faultlessly.
A very well respected mercedes independant in southampton told me than recon electronic injectors have many failures within 2 years and would always recommend a new one. Its back to luck of the draw?

 

[Supertramp]

As with cars, this is about buying new versus running old. A new common rail engine will doubtless perform well, for a while. Once repairs are are needed they are expensive and can be hard to diagnose. Several of my recent cars have had expensive repairs mainly due to environmental add ons, chips or sensors. Boats (and perhaps motorhomes) want an engine that runs reliably but sporadically (lying idle for many weeks or months), and will keep doing that for decades.

I agree with Fred Russell - an electric engine, some battery capacity and a diesel generator that can be readily maintained and removed if necessary and is self contained.

 

[LittleSister]

I agree with Fred Russell - an electric engine, some battery capacity and . . .

. . . an extension lead many nautical miles long!

 

[Roberto]

Repeat of old story, sorry: a fellow boat met in Brazil, their common rail did not like local diesel and would stop the engine after a short time. Fortunately, they had a few jerricans left with European diesel: in order to maximise their engine time they had to start the engine with the Spanish fuel, then switch to the Brazilian one for as long as the engine would tolerate, the engine would eventually stop and they had to begin anew with all the procedure.
Simplicity is the supreme sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci

 

[Dellquay13]

I agree with Fred Russell - an electric engine, some battery capacity and a diesel generator that can be readily maintained and removed if necessary and is self contained.

I have a very reliable, well maintained 1gm10, it doesn’t burn oil, I recycle the old oils, filters and anode.
I use about 15-20l of diesel a year.
I don’t know the equation to work out the exact carbon footprint, but I estimate 15-20l of diesel is going to max out at about 20-25kg of CO2 and other pollutants. (Conservation of mass guesstimate 15-20kg diesel and 5kg O2)
Maybe another 100kg of CO2 to produce the oil, filters and pencil anode replaced each year. Any repairs I have done using used parts, 0kg CO2 apart from shipping.
Fuel and annual service <£100 a year?

If I replaced it with an electric motor, batteries, sufficient solar capacity and routine charging from shore power, aside from the very substantial financial outlay compared to my frugal existing running costs, what would the timescale be for recouping the ecological impact of building, shipping, installation, maintenance and routine charging of all that technology and physical material?

I believe my most financially and ecologically beneficial approach is to motor less and sail more, on the existing setup.

 

[westernman]

I have a very reliable, well maintained 1gm10, it doesn’t burn oil, I recycle the old oils, filters and anode.

It is not common rail is it?

The discussion was common rail vs some thing else.
Currently available new engines with more than 50hp are almost all common rail.

 

[fredrussell]

If I replaced it with an electric motor, batteries, sufficient solar capacity and routine charging from shore power, aside from the very substantial financial outlay compared to my frugal existing running costs, what would the timescale be for recouping the ecological impact of building, shipping, installation, maintenance and routine charging of all that technology and physical material?

I believe my most financially and ecologically beneficial approach is to motor less and sail more, on the existing setup.

Agree with you completely. I care very much about the environment but my strong desire to ‘go electric’ is not based on environmental concerns, I just think an electric motor is a far simpler device than a diesel engine. I have a very trusty and much loved Yanmar 3gm boat engine that is 32 years old and runs beautifully, but if (not when!) it dies I shall replace with an electric motor. Hopefully that will be far enough in the future that battery cost/technology will allow for better range per £ than is currently possible.

 

[Dellquay13]

It is not common rail is it?

The discussion was common rail vs some thing else.
Currently available new engines with more than 50hp are almost all common rail.

It’s not common rail, but my comment was in reply to talk of electric motors, equally thread drift.

The world of boats that need 50hp+ as an auxiliary engine is so far above my pay grade that it never occurred to me.

I’m selling my motor boat with a big ecu controlled modern efficient engine, and saving about £2000 a year on fuel, without any reduction in the time spent afloat. My circumstances mean I can largely only use a boat in a limited range at weekends or for a week at most, so I don’t need a sailboat that will cross an ocean with a crew of 6, with a 6cyl 80hp CRD engine or such.

 

[Supertramp]

I have a very reliable, well maintained 1gm10, it doesn’t burn oil, I recycle the old oils, filters and anode.
I use about 15-20l of diesel a year.
I don’t know the equation to work out the exact carbon footprint, but I estimate 15-20l of diesel is going to max out at about 20-25kg of CO2 and other pollutants. (Conservation of mass guesstimate 15-20kg diesel and 5kg O2)
Maybe another 100kg of CO2 to produce the oil, filters and pencil anode replaced each year. Any repairs I have done using used parts, 0kg CO2 apart from shipping.
Fuel and annual service <£100 a year?

If I replaced it with an electric motor, batteries, sufficient solar capacity and routine charging from shore power, aside from the very substantial financial outlay compared to my frugal existing running costs, what would the timescale be for recouping the ecological impact of building, shipping, installation, maintenance and routine charging of all that technology and physical material?

I believe my most financially and ecologically beneficial approach is to motor less and sail more, on the existing setup.

I agree, understand and have a 15 yr old Beta that is easy to maintain and understand. The question (assuming we have moved beyond motor caravans) is whether the common rail engines will continue to offer dependable, simple auxiliary propulsion as they get to 20yrs +. My concern is in the circuitry and associated sensors.