Collision in Solent this afternoon - Incoming Tanker / Yacht

[oldharry]

Quite. As it happens this boat is one of my regular opponents. And they're pretty decent sailors, who were just starting to get to grips with the boat. Dealing with shipping is a part of Solent racing, and a badly timed ship has cost me more than one race win.

Anyone who thinks there is anything more to this than a very public, and very spectacular, error of judgement is very much mistaken. You've all made similar mistakes, but without such serious consequences, or a camera rolling.

Here's hoping it doesn't put them off sailing altogether, they get the boat fixed and get back on the water as soon as possible.

No, I dont think I ever made anything remotely like a 'similar mistake' to this one.

A big orange tanker coming towards me, at speed. A guardboat telling me to get out of the way, and no doubt reminding me of the MEZ rules fairly forcibly, then still deciding it is safe to carry on.

No: I have made a lot of often silly mistakes in my sailing life. But nothing comes near this one.

 

[flaming]

Please don't think I'm in any way defending the actions of this boat. Clearly he was very much in the wrong, and will doubtless will be haunted with memories of the incident. I just find some of the vitriol on here rather cringeworthy.
And the depressingly familiar racer bashing is a little tired.

 

[boomerangben]

You really think he just ignores the instuctions? I don't.

I think he's slap in front of the ship on a pretty tight reach, and is expecting it to turn to starboard any time soon. So he decides to try and climb above it and pass down its port side. But the wind, and the tanker's speed, caught him out and he doesn't manage to climb to windward in time.

An error of judgement, we all make them, but not all of ours end up on YouTube.

I have to say that I find the logic here laughable. <edited: I can see that if the tanker had turned, it might have avoided collision, but I doubt the tanker captain and/or pilot would have turned their vessel towards the Atlanta and Atlanta's skipper should have considered that point when coming up with his tactics.> How much space does a 265m ship plus tug on the stern at x knots need to do that turn? It's going to be a bloody long way round, to windward. I am guessing it is quite simple. Skipper was well aware the Hanne Knutsen was there, thought he would pass clear (without worrying about the exclusion zone). The alternative was to run down the starboard side of the tanker and probably miss the finish line. He bottled out (who wouldn't) although if he hadn't spilled he might have got past with little more than an adrenaline overdose. <edited: It would have been interesting to seen the incident from the perspective of the bridge of the Hanne Knutsen.

We have a condition in aviation called "Get-home-itis" and has been the demise of many a pilot - continuing into weather that is beyond their ability. This is a case of "Finish-line-itis", we all have a Press-on-itis that clouds our judgement and it is up to us to recognise it as skippers and put it aside. Winning is not everything. "Getting home in time for tea" is.

 

[epervier]

You really think he just ignores the instuctions? I don't.

I think he's slap in front of the ship on a pretty tight reach, and is expecting it to turn to starboard any time soon. So he decides to try and climb above it and pass down its port side. But the wind, and the tanker's speed, caught him out and he doesn't manage to climb to windward in time.

An error of judgement, we all make them, but not all of ours end up on YouTube.

I have a size nine coal shovel you can borrow, if this hole you're digging isn't big enough.

all that the youtube does, is show how bad a sailor he is. there is no excuse for being where he was, he could have turned anytime before, but chose to gamble his life and his crews to get a better result in a race, by your own admission you are of a similar mindset it would seem.(a badly timed ship has cost me more than one race win.)

 

[Pete R]

And the depressingly familiar racer bashing is a little tired.

With examples like this and your statements earlier I can't for the life of me think why...

 

[flaming]

I have a size nine coal shovel you can borrow, if this hole you're digging isn't big enough.

all that the youtube does, is show how bad a sailor he is. there is no excuse for being where he was, he could have turned anytime before, but chose to gamble his life and his crews to get a better result in a race, by your own admission you are of a similar mindset it would seem.(a badly timed ship has cost me more than one race win.)

A shovel seems useful...

The guy made a massive mistake. We can all guess the reason why, but no I'm not the same. My "badly timed ship" meant I had to stop and wait, whilst the faster rated boats crossed ahead of it.

This whole thread is just kicking a man when he's down. And it really isn't just racers. Almost every time I go out a cruiser gets 5 blasts, but none of them ever wind up on YouTube.

 

[fireball]

<snip>by your own admission you are of a similar mindset it would seem.(a badly timed ship has cost me more than one race win.)

I think you interpret that in a different way - I read that as Flaming has lost races through having to avoid ships, which he is obliged to do - and by virtue of loosing the races - has done so - thus fulfilling his obligation to both the rules and the safety of his vessel/crew.

There is no doubt (in my mind) that other vessels are a pain in the arse for racing fleets - but they are just another hazard to avoid.
However, had that collision been between two racing boats we would've just written it off to over enthusiastic crews and bad judgement...

 

[Twister_Ken]

Almost every time I go out a cruiser gets 5 blasts, but none of them ever wind up on YouTube.

And very few of them end up with their sails being used as a merchantman's anchor cover!

 

[oldharry]

A shovel seems useful...

. Almost every time I go out a cruiser gets 5 blasts, but none of them ever wind up on YouTube.

And how many end up wound round the bows of a tanker having received that signal?

 

[Little Five]

There are a couple of upsides to this incident.
The skipper will never do it again, and neither will any of his crew.
Thousands of people will watch that U tube clip and will never get into that situation.
Many more will read this thread and be warned.
Nobody died.

I expect the skipper is feeling a right chump. Lets leave him alone.

 

[Resolution]

It is quite interesting to see exactly what this head on impact does to the yacht. I would have half expected it to be rolled over and to go underneath the tanker. Is it the shape of the underwater bulb that pushes the water up and around the bow responsible for the relatively gentle shove round to the side of the tanker? Can any of our shipping experts tell us whether this is normal or just a lucky escape?

Second thought is that if the tanker had not been hiding an anchor on the leeward side (from the yacht's point of view) then the spinnaker would not have snagged and the yacht might have escaped with its rig intact.

 

[Searush]

the yacht might have escaped with its rig intact.

I doubt that, if you read stories of people coming alongside big boats in little ones the rig is often damaged by contact with the nice big flat steel hull. The small boat is bobbing about on the water, the steel wall is effectively solid & immovable.

Bashing your rig on a solid steel plate is not good for it, spreaders collapse & then the top of the rig is unsupported from the sides, note how the top of the mast falls first. Then you have lost the fore & aft stays & the lower part of the rig falls forward or back. Your spreaders are more important than they look.

I reckon you are right about the way the boat is washed aside by the water cascading off the stability bulb.

 

[mixmaster]

I agree with flaming on the racer bashing. Was out sailing this weekend. Nothing but polite thank you's and nods from the racers. Lots of fun watching the action.
I've had racers give me the "we're racing" remark in the past but rarely and they were appropriately told off. However, I've had to duck/bear off/tack many times more often for cruisers not seeing me or not knowing the rules.
We've been getting into racing recently and have found it all very pleasant and good fun. We've also cruised thousands of miles. Just don't get the division. It's not like we're motorboating!

 

[Chrissie]

There are a couple of upsides to this incident.
The skipper will never do it again, and neither will any of his crew.
Thousands of people will watch that U tube clip and will never get into that situation.
Many more will read this thread and be warned.
Nobody died.

I expect the skipper is feeling a right chump. Lets leave him alone.

+1 I think we will all be a little more observant out there.

 

[benjenbav]

It looks like reckless endangerment of life to me. i.e. a bit more than a simple mistake.

 

[Twister_Ken]

It is quite interesting to see exactly what this head on impact does to the yacht. I would have half expected it to be rolled over and to go underneath the tanker. Is it the shape of the underwater bulb that pushes the water up and around the bow responsible for the relatively gentle shove round to the side of the tanker? Can any of our shipping experts tell us whether this is normal or just a lucky escape?

Second thought is that if the tanker had not been hiding an anchor on the leeward side (from the yacht's point of view) then the spinnaker would not have snagged and the yacht might have escaped with its rig intact.

It would be interesting to know if there was other damage to the hull, other than scrapes and gouges. Seems improbable that she got away with only a dropped rig.

 

[lukedh]

I don't want to prolong the thread but perhaps someone familiar with the racing rules could explain. If during a race such as this a yacht 'cheats' by breaking the harbour rules and cuts through an exclusion zone in order to gain a competitive advantage wouldn't they be disqualified as a matter of course? Isn't it rather like nipping inside a marker buoy and hopeing no one will notice? Everyone else in the race has to obey the rules and go round or is it different if your in a race and get away with it? Would it need another yacht to protest them, or would the race committee have done so anyway? Do race committees even care? Surely if they did it would encourage fair play and be a disincentive to skippers thinking of nipping in front of the inconvenient oncoming tanker.

 

[savageseadog]

I don't want to prolong the thread but perhaps someone familiar with the racing rules could explain. If during a race such as this a yacht 'cheats' by breaking the harbour rules and cuts through an exclusion zone in order to gain a competitive advantage wouldn't they be disqualified as a matter of course? Isn't it rather like nipping inside a marker buoy and hopping no one will notice? Everyone else in the race has to obey the rules and go round or is it different if your in a race and get away with it? Would it need another yacht to protest them, or would the race committee have done so anyway? Do race committees even care? Surely if they did it would encourage fair play and be a disincentive to skippers thinking of nipping in front of the inconvenient oncoming tanker.

The Officer of the day or committee will usually write something into the sailing instructions giving themselves the power to do just that.

and an extract of the SI's read:

B17 Commercial shipping
B17 .1 southampton harbour Byelaws (changing RRS 60)
(a) Boats shall observe the Associated British Ports (ABP)
Southampton Harbour Byelaws 2003 (see page 12) at all
times and avoid any close quarters situation with large
commercial shipping . Particular note should be made of
Byelaws 10 & 11 and Associated British Ports Southampton
Notice to Mariners No . 3 of 2011 giving details of a moving
prohibited zone, which ranks as an obstruction for the
purposes of RRS 19 and 20 .
(b) Protests for infringements of B17 .1(a) may be brought only
by the race committee who may initiate a protest as the
result of a report from an ABP Pilot or Patrol boat . Note
that ABP may initiate court proceedings against boats that
infringe this byelaw

 

[Windhover]

Cowes Racing Rules

I am not a racer, but do have friends who have raced regularly at Cowes week, and I had the same thought as lukedh. I had always "understood" that if a yacht passed inside the exclusion zone around one of these ships then they could be protested/were disqualified from the race. Thus it might make sense to gamble on crossing ahead just outside the 1,000 metre exclusion zone, but there is absolutely no point, even if racing, in crossing when you will clearly be inside the 1,000 metres - you will simply be disqualified.

Is my vague "understanding" right, or am I completely wrong? If I'm right, it must have been clear to the skipper for some minutes that they were not going to be able to cross in front of the exclusion zone

 

[jimi]

Based on the clip I saw on the news, the skipper of that yacht is'nt fit to command a bar of soap never mind a yacht.