Collision in Solent this afternoon - Incoming Tanker / Yacht

[Lakesailor]

I wonder how one would feel as an MOB in the water with all those RIBS zooming around, without them knowing where you were. Were they official safety boats?

When a multi-agency emergency practice was carried out on Windermere one year they threw MOBs overboard from the Swan (ferry) made of boiler suits packed with straw.
When the Police, Wardens and Rangers all arrived in their ribs they chopped up the MOBs with their props. Bit like shredding office documents.

The official line was that it had "highlighted some issues from which we will learn"

 

[fireball]

As I've posted in another thread ...

Sailboat racing is supposed to be a Gentleman's sport and competitors are expected to abide by the rules and fair play ...

heck - it's even written down in the RRS!

BASIC PRINCIPLE
SPORTSMANSHIP AND THE RULES
Competitors in the sport of sailing are governed by a body of rules
that they are expected to follow and enforce. A fundamental principle
of sportsmanship is that when competitors break a rule they will
promptly take a penalty, which may be to retire.
PART 1
FUNDAMENTAL RULES
<snip>
2 FAIR SAILING
A boat and her owner shall compete in compliance with recognized
principles of sportsmanship and fair play. A boat may be penalized
under this rule only if it is clearly established that these principles
have been violated. A disqualification under this rule shall not be
excluded from the boat’s series score.

So if a competitor contravened a bye-law or regulation in order to gain a competitive advantage then I would expect them to be able to be protested and penalised by their competitors or the race officer.

I think this skipper has nearly paid the ultimate price - actually, no - paid the ultimate price - he's broken the boat, subject to national press, radio jokes and will take a long time to live this down. He may suffer a significant financial penalty. He's also lost out on racing (this boat) for the remainder of Cowes Week - and possibly a few weeks after dependant on the state of the vessel and repairs.
No doubt he'll be subject to questioning by various authorities which probably won't be too comfortable for him.
Even if he had entrusted the lookout and collision avoidance to a crew member he won't be able to use that as a get-out clause as ultimately it was his responsibility.

 

[Racecruiser]

I agree with flaming on the racer bashing. Was out sailing this weekend. Nothing but polite thank you's and nods from the racers. Lots of fun watching the action.
I've had racers give me the "we're racing" remark in the past but rarely and they were appropriately told off. However, I've had to duck/bear off/tack many times more often for cruisers not seeing me or not knowing the rules.
We've been getting into racing recently and have found it all very pleasant and good fun. We've also cruised thousands of miles. Just don't get the division. It's not like we're motorboating!

More often than not I agree that racers are fairly courteous - good ones know how to handle their boats in close quarter situations and have a good idea of what is happening around them. Exceptions do exist in both racing and cruising. I wonder if the rise of corporates jumping on the yacht bandwagon has anything to do with some in either camp being gung-ho or rude. Must say I don't really want to go sailing with my employer or any other corporate branding plastered on a boat and would rather do without the less than desirable competitive elements that go with corporate team building!

I'm not saying I'm not competitive when racing and sometimes the blood pressure rises in the wish to do well - I just don't want any corporate associations .....

Looking at the incident here it really doesn't look good and I expect there will be some knock-on effects as the outcome could have been very nasty. I suppose it's possible the skipper thought he was going to get in front but suddenly the wind disappeared - however the wind disappearing was perhaps the effect of the tanker doing c12 knots into said wind. I guess this demonstrates what the MPZ is there for.

It will be interesting to see if anyone on board contributes to the thread - I expect it was a very traumatic incident for them.

 

[snooks]

BASIC PRINCIPLE
FORUMSHIP AND THE RULES
Users in the conversation of sailing are governed by a body of rules
that they are expected to follow and not enforce. A fundamental principle
of forumship is that when competitors break a rule they will
promptly take time out, which may be to retire.
PART 1
FUNDAMENTAL RULES
<snip>
2 FAIR POSTING
A user and their posts shall compete in compliance with recognized
principles of forumship and fair play. A user may be penalized
under this rule only if it is clearly established that these principles
have been violated. A disqualification under this rule shall not be
excluded from the users post count.

Fixed that for you

 

[benjenbav]

I suppose it's possible the skipper thought he was going to get in front but suddenly the wind disappeared

But his calculation should have been as to whether he was going to get a whole kilometre in front of the thing.

 

[Racecruiser]

But his calculation should have been as to whether he was going to get a whole kilometre in front of the thing.

Yes you're right - I'm not offering an excuse just a possible line of thinking.

 

[RivalRedwing]

It is quite interesting to see exactly what this head on impact does to the yacht. I would have half expected it to be rolled over and to go underneath the tanker. Is it the shape of the underwater bulb that pushes the water up and around the bow responsible for the relatively gentle shove round to the side of the tanker? Can any of our shipping experts tell us whether this is normal or just a lucky escape?

Second thought is that if the tanker had not been hiding an anchor on the leeward side (from the yacht's point of view) then the spinnaker would not have snagged and the yacht might have escaped with its rig intact.

This incident and the aftermath would make a useful add on to the YM crash test series if the owner will grant access to the boat (assuming that there is no clash with any legal proceeings)

 

[stewart9901]

It is quite interesting to see exactly what this head on impact does to the yacht. I would have half expected it to be rolled over and to go underneath the tanker. Is it the shape of the underwater bulb that pushes the water up and around the bow responsible for the relatively gentle shove round to the side of the tanker? Can any of our shipping experts tell us whether this is normal or just a lucky escape?

Second thought is that if the tanker had not been hiding an anchor on the leeward side (from the yacht's point of view) then the spinnaker would not have snagged and the yacht might have escaped with its rig intact.

A tanker of this size displaces somewhere around 150000t, as it moves through the water an area of positive pressure is formed around the bow as the ship pushes water up, forward, to the sides and downwards a second area of positive pressure is created at the stern by the wash from the propeller and the water that was forced down moving back up. Along the flat side of the hull a negative pressure area forms which acts to suck other vessels toward the ship.
in this case the tanker was moving slowly, i would guess below 5knts, and so the yacht was gently pushed round had it being moving faster it would be entirely possible that the yacht would be capsized.
I couldn’t see from the clip but i would think that after initially being forced away from the tanker the yacht would then be sucked back towards the hull and then scrap/bounce down the hull causing a lot of damage to the hull.

All on board were extremely fortunate

 

[Poignard]

This incident and the aftermath would make a useful add on to the YM crash test series if the owner will grant access to the boat (assuming that there is no clash with any legal proceeings)

'. . grant access . .'

The way he must be feeling now he'd probably be glad to give it away!

 

[fireball]

Fixed that for you

 

[prv]

Listen to the video, first thing the spectators says:

'because they are racing, they have right of way over that...'

Another arse hole racer.

I heard it as "they think because they're racing they've got right of way, but they haven't". Not even clear to me that he's referring to the ship, could have been just a general moan about racers of the kind peppered throughout this thread.

Pete

 

[snooks]

in this case the tanker was moving slowly, i would guess below 5knts,

THIS illustrates why people are caught unaware.

It's going at least twice as fast as you guessed, probably around 10-15 knots

 

[Little Five]

THIS illustrates why people are caught unaware.

It's going at least twice as fast as you guessed, probably around 10-15 knots

See post 86 by GinjaNinja for speed of ship. Sorry can't move whole post-don;t know how.

 

[arfa]

ais ?

Surely ais would have helped the skipper come to a "better informed decision" ?
Also, the rest of the class look a little close to the tanker or is that just perspective ?

 

[prv]

Surely ais would have helped the skipper come to a "better informed decision" ?

I suspect the vast orange ship visible in front of him gave all the information required. The idea that someone ought to be peering at a little black arrow on a screen instead seems absurd. The problem here was catastrophic failure of judgement, not lack of information.

Pete

 

[epervier]

I think you interpret that in a different way - I read that as Flaming has lost races through having to avoid ships, which he is obliged to do - and by virtue of loosing the races - has done so - thus fulfilling his obligation to both the rules and the safety of his vessel/crew.

There is no doubt (in my mind) that other vessels are a pain in the arse for racing fleets - but they are just another hazard to avoid.

However, had that collision been between two racing boats we would've just written it off to over enthusiastic crews and bad judgement...

First part, then that being the case I willingly apologise for taking it the wrong way.

Second part, then the key word is avoid, not plough on in front of a bloody great tanker.

Third part, is a valid point, it's part of close racing, and not necessarily bad judgement at all.

All of course only IMHO.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Surely ais would have helped the skipper come to a "better informed decision" ?
Also, the rest of the class look a little close to the tanker or is that just perspective ?

The 'rest of the class" were Sunsail F40s, which were in a race of their own. My opinion is that they were further away from big orange than they looked, because of the long lens flattening perspective. Whether they were 100 m away though, I doubt!

 

[snooks]

See post 86 by GinjaNinja for speed of ship. Sorry can't move whole post-don;t know how.

Just done a (quick) bit of research for the speed/hdg of the ship.

Time/speed/hdg
14:40/11.0kn/271º
14:50/11.7kn/274º
15:00/11.0kn/278º
15:11/10.9kn/261º
15:20/6.6kn/360º
15:30/6.7kn/44º

So prior to her turn when, she was heading west, she had been doing around 11 knots

Data from here

 

[fireball]

Difficult to tell if the SS's were 100m away - but if you look at the height of the masts against the ship compared to the dismasted I'd say they were a good distance away ...

 

[webcraft]

Surely ais would have helped the skipper come to a "better informed decision" ?

Agreed - see my last post on the other COLREGS thread.

- W