Choice of boat for Bluewater
- Thread starter contessaman
- Start date
Roberto
Well-known member
As you like diving, may I suggest you stop at Fernando de Noronha, the island just off the south america "shoulder" (check prices first). Imho the Brazilian coast is not that beautiful for diving, except Fernando de Noronha and Abrolhos atolls which are definitely more to the south, water is not that transparent... but maybe you go looking for something else.
We did a similar trip (France, Spain, Portugal, most of Morocco, Canaries, Senegal, Gambia, Brazil, Guyana, Suriname, Trinidad, Martinique, Azores, France), part in family of four (3+6yo kids) part myself singlehanded (Pantaenius insured also the singlehanded transatlantic back), boat a Sun Legende 41 which we were very happy with, just missed the washing machine
I am planning to do a similar trip again maybe in a couple of years but it will be more on the "exploration" side with paying guests, family just during holidays, (the whole south of Morocco, Mauritania, Bijagos islands, more inland Brazil etc) so I am inclined towards a centreboard aluminium boat, but that is for technical reasons, as for pure sailing I know that type of boat does not even come close to my present (very) old awb.
regards
r
addition
Really *not* my type of boat, but for scuba diving and sailing with a family having only a limited interest in "pure sailing", it's difficult to beat a catamaran...
(hi macd
)
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Ariadne
Active member
Some sensible answers to your questions so far, but I'd concentrate on getting the Mrs and kids on-board before running out to buy a boat and planning stops; otherwise I fear it will all go tits up and result in expensive lawyers fees.
Seriously, you need them to buy into it and buy into it at least 80% if you want them to come along and actually enjoy it, you can work on the other 20% when you are out there. Your Mrs needs to have a say on what boat you buy, and how you use it, she and kids must have an input into where you go and how you do it, otherwise it won't work. We found that (initially) for everyday sailing the kids will need 3 days ashore, kids get board sailing and they like the beach and stuff like that - it's their trip as well. If you get it right they will become the best crew you could wish for; trust me on that!
Home schooling sounds more scary that it is, we've been cruising with our two for the last 8 years, and school has been fun and demanding, but it's how you approach it that counts. Many people will tell you, you are not doing it right or some other **** but you and your Mrs will know if its working or not!
If you want your kids to have other kids to play with and hang around with (and they will want this and need it more than you think), then forget Europe and head west, that's where the cruising kids are in decent numbers, our experience of cruising Europe/Med' was that there are very few people cruising with kids, but plenty of retired grumpy old gits who don't like kids having a good time in the same anchorage as them!!!
Edit
Add The Gambia to your itinerary, we spend two months there. Easy to get to and very friendly, add into that you can sail/motor around 150 up river seeing crocodiles, hippo's, etc as well as meeting some great people in the villages you should call into on the way up and back down; your kids will love it.
Seriously, you need them to buy into it and buy into it at least 80% if you want them to come along and actually enjoy it, you can work on the other 20% when you are out there. Your Mrs needs to have a say on what boat you buy, and how you use it, she and kids must have an input into where you go and how you do it, otherwise it won't work. We found that (initially) for everyday sailing the kids will need 3 days ashore, kids get board sailing and they like the beach and stuff like that - it's their trip as well. If you get it right they will become the best crew you could wish for; trust me on that!
Home schooling sounds more scary that it is, we've been cruising with our two for the last 8 years, and school has been fun and demanding, but it's how you approach it that counts. Many people will tell you, you are not doing it right or some other **** but you and your Mrs will know if its working or not!
If you want your kids to have other kids to play with and hang around with (and they will want this and need it more than you think), then forget Europe and head west, that's where the cruising kids are in decent numbers, our experience of cruising Europe/Med' was that there are very few people cruising with kids, but plenty of retired grumpy old gits who don't like kids having a good time in the same anchorage as them!!!
Edit
Add The Gambia to your itinerary, we spend two months there. Easy to get to and very friendly, add into that you can sail/motor around 150 up river seeing crocodiles, hippo's, etc as well as meeting some great people in the villages you should call into on the way up and back down; your kids will love it.
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tcm
...
Hm. I think they only need a dinghy for Bluewater, possibly an amphibious car to get there via the M25 and M2.
Ariadne
Active member
No need to be sarky TCM, just because your a CLOD these days!
Tranona
Well-known member
If you don't fancy Bluewater straightaway you can always stop at Lakeside for a taster!
Tam Lin
Well-known member
I'm so glad you posted this. I've been wanting to do it for days now but have resisted the temptation, now I don't have to worry about it any more!
Personally I would use an ordinary car and drive over the bridge from Essex.
contessaman
Member
Thanks for all the responses so far folks. I'm not in a massive rush to get the right boat - because as some have already pointed out - I'm still not sure to what degree my family will take part and that more than anything will influence the choice of boat. I respect the advice of those with experience in terms of strain on marriage etc. if they don't come along for the ride, however I must add that I do have the blessing of my wife even if I go it alone. I'm not saying that it wont cause stress, but we have been together pretty much since teenagers and she has always known this is something I need to do one day. Also, I have spent about 50% of the last 12 years away from home thanks to my choice of career in the military so she is probably better placed than most wives whos husbands have 9-5 jobs to cope with my abscence. In a perverse sort of way our marriage is based around separation!
My ideal balance would be singlehanded for the long passages, joined by diving friends in the remote locations and have my family with me for the rest.
its good to hear that people are making the milk run successfully in everything from heavyweight long keelers to AWBs.
Although I'm a sailor who appreciates the virtues of the former I also think that living space is important too. So if a 38 foot AWB that has a much room as a 48 foot long keeler can make the trip (and have a moulded in swim platform) then this has its virtues.
I guess in terms of seaworthiness its a case of being sympathetic to the type of boat you're in. Its fair game to let a long keeler lay ahull or hove to in a storm, but an awb would be better laying to a para-anchor or probably better still run off the wind with a drogue.
I still hear angels sing when I look at that F&C 44 though. I think I will make the trip up north in the new year if she's still for sale.
My ideal balance would be singlehanded for the long passages, joined by diving friends in the remote locations and have my family with me for the rest.
its good to hear that people are making the milk run successfully in everything from heavyweight long keelers to AWBs.
Although I'm a sailor who appreciates the virtues of the former I also think that living space is important too. So if a 38 foot AWB that has a much room as a 48 foot long keeler can make the trip (and have a moulded in swim platform) then this has its virtues.
I guess in terms of seaworthiness its a case of being sympathetic to the type of boat you're in. Its fair game to let a long keeler lay ahull or hove to in a storm, but an awb would be better laying to a para-anchor or probably better still run off the wind with a drogue.
I still hear angels sing when I look at that F&C 44 though. I think I will make the trip up north in the new year if she's still for sale.
contessaman
Member
Meant to ask you Tranona,
one thing, looking at the Bav ocean 38. The cap shrouds, inters, lowers etc - the lot, all go to one chainplate. Compared to say the Grand soleil which has three seperate deck pads and bars to take the load to the hull...
Its a little all eggs in one basket although it looks substantially made and has a well secured tie bar.
I presume your Bav is the same? have you heard of any issues or failures in this area? It seems a lot of modern rigs on AWBs favour this style of rig. just wondering if there are any horror stories out there...
one thing, looking at the Bav ocean 38. The cap shrouds, inters, lowers etc - the lot, all go to one chainplate. Compared to say the Grand soleil which has three seperate deck pads and bars to take the load to the hull...
Its a little all eggs in one basket although it looks substantially made and has a well secured tie bar.
I presume your Bav is the same? have you heard of any issues or failures in this area? It seems a lot of modern rigs on AWBs favour this style of rig. just wondering if there are any horror stories out there...
Tranona
Well-known member
Yes, that is a standard Bavaria arrangement from that era. The tie bar goes down to a ply web frame (about 60mm thick on my boat) glassed into the hull and extending down to the keel grid. Seems pretty robust, although there was a long thread here a couple of years ago featuring a bigger Bav (50 from memory) where the whole frame had pulled out and taken part of the deck and galley furniture with it during a regatta somewhere in the Caribbean. as with most of such reports it was difficult to establish whether the damage was cause or effect with suggestions of a collision being the root cause. Nobody seemed to be able to come up with any examples of similar failures.
Given the thousands of boats built to this basic design any systemic faults would have shown up by now. It is very easy to check as nothing is hidden unlike some boats where the chain plate anchorage points are concealed behind linings and furniture!
Given the thousands of boats built to this basic design any systemic faults would have shown up by now. It is very easy to check as nothing is hidden unlike some boats where the chain plate anchorage points are concealed behind linings and furniture!
SHUG
Active member
The yacht I lived- on- board for five years is up for sale again. Its a Seastream 43 and in 2004 we sailed to the Med and had a fabulous time. A really excellent yacht which never gave us a moments concern. See: http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCEQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seastreamforsale.com%2FSaltwater%2520Gypsy.pdf&ei=hHOMVMyWDNLnatXOgvAD&usg=AFQjCNErxtb4jE2H9T43fVIrNwhGy5e86w&bvm=bv.81828268,d.d2s and open up the PDF.
I have no financial interest in the boat but wanted to give it a solid recommendation
I have no financial interest in the boat but wanted to give it a solid recommendation
contessaman
Member
interesting boat. so is the poss p Ex for a smaller vessel...
in the mean while....
any opinions on sun odyssey 40? looking at a pre 40.3 model so its build 'the old way' rather than interior moulding. seems to tick a lot of boxes. but should I be worried about an unsupported spade rudder and a bulbed fin. probably not but it does worry me all the same...
chrisb
New member
Suspect you are too worried to make a decision . Stay ashore is best bet
KellysEye
Active member
> but an awb would be better laying to a para-anchor or probably better still run off the wind with a drogue.
If you deploy a parachute anchor the boat moves backwards and will destroy the spade rudder. AWB's should use drogues, a long keeler should use a parachute anchor which we had.
If you deploy a parachute anchor the boat moves backwards and will destroy the spade rudder. AWB's should use drogues, a long keeler should use a parachute anchor which we had.
tcm
...
Thoughts of steel boats, para-anchors, drogues etc are borne from fear, often caused too much reading of salty seadog tales eg Pardey and the like. But follow the Cornell recommendations of when to sail the major ocean routes and there will be no storms requiring laying a-hull and all that. The worldARC sails rtw in a year, there's no storms, but of course you can take longer - if you sail those major routes in the non-storm seasons, as they do. There's never a need to sail ANY weather as seen in the uk at the moment, for example. You'd sail south June -July to arrive Canaries by late August, wait until late November or later to reach carib by Jan and then Panama by Feb-March, cross the Pacific from March, be through Torres before end Sept, round Agulhas/Good Hope in late October or early Nov and from Cape back to the carib from Nov to May
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contessaman
Member
thanks for your really useful contribution. hope it makes you feel really good about yourself.
sampeeter
New member
Kingsley Parker specialises in the sale of blue water cruising yachts, and it is an enormous privilege to deal in a sector of the market where so many yachtsmen have extraordinary adventures aboard their yachts. We often sell the same yacht a number of times, and will buy and sell for yachtsmen as their ambition to cruise oceans and go further afield develops.
Blue water cruising can be one of the most depressing and pleasant sports in the world, together at the identical time. Ocean cruising persons have learned how to manage their lives, including relationships and capital, because they must. Ocean seafaring presents real troubles that require genuine solutions, that can't be ignored. Life or loss of life are the only two options.
Deep-sea cruising is an instructive opportunity that has full potential for the growth of wisdom, skills, and attitudes that are hard to teach in the limitations of the classroom. . Sailing is a incredible tool for honing personal and team skills. Bluewater sailing is first, the most superb and liberating experience. But it has its individual risks that require extraordinary care to steer clear of.
Sailing vessels were used by the peoples of the Mediterranean region several thousand years before the birth of Christ. But designs have altered as have the sailors. Builders of bluewater sailboats have taken into account how boats are sailed these days into deliberation, considering the added weight and speed the yachts will need. And yes, open water sailboats are compromises in every meaning.
Vessels built for speediness are much more delicate than those constructed for strength. But a boat's fit to sail has a lot to do with awareness. Seaworthiness means something very different on protected lakes than on open seas.
When steadiness is compromised the yacht is not equal to the circumstances that is in front of it. Perhaps the following broader meaning is closer to what contemporary designers aim for; a seaworthy boat is one that is able to pull through rapidly from a 180-degree keel over without severe harm and without sinking. Brawny enough to care for herself while hove, proportionate submissive on the helm, and effortlessly handled at all times, nimble downwind and able to beat to up wind, or at least hold her position, in all but the gravest of conditions. She must able to transport sufficient crew with excellent headroom and security, plus water and provisions, for long periods and be able to provide good average speeds on extended passages.
Blue water cruising can be one of the most depressing and pleasant sports in the world, together at the identical time. Ocean cruising persons have learned how to manage their lives, including relationships and capital, because they must. Ocean seafaring presents real troubles that require genuine solutions, that can't be ignored. Life or loss of life are the only two options.
Deep-sea cruising is an instructive opportunity that has full potential for the growth of wisdom, skills, and attitudes that are hard to teach in the limitations of the classroom. . Sailing is a incredible tool for honing personal and team skills. Bluewater sailing is first, the most superb and liberating experience. But it has its individual risks that require extraordinary care to steer clear of.
Sailing vessels were used by the peoples of the Mediterranean region several thousand years before the birth of Christ. But designs have altered as have the sailors. Builders of bluewater sailboats have taken into account how boats are sailed these days into deliberation, considering the added weight and speed the yachts will need. And yes, open water sailboats are compromises in every meaning.
Vessels built for speediness are much more delicate than those constructed for strength. But a boat's fit to sail has a lot to do with awareness. Seaworthiness means something very different on protected lakes than on open seas.
When steadiness is compromised the yacht is not equal to the circumstances that is in front of it. Perhaps the following broader meaning is closer to what contemporary designers aim for; a seaworthy boat is one that is able to pull through rapidly from a 180-degree keel over without severe harm and without sinking. Brawny enough to care for herself while hove, proportionate submissive on the helm, and effortlessly handled at all times, nimble downwind and able to beat to up wind, or at least hold her position, in all but the gravest of conditions. She must able to transport sufficient crew with excellent headroom and security, plus water and provisions, for long periods and be able to provide good average speeds on extended passages.
BurnitBlue
Well-known member
Great post tcm. I have admired your circumnavigation and actually searched for your timetable but your blog on Mailasail (sp? ) has disappeared.
Had thoughts of trying to beat it, but perhaps not from the above schedule. Monohull verses Big Cat issues.
I would love to attempt it though.
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sailswim
Member
contessaman I hope you'll keep this thread updated with your thinking on boats that you are considering for this trip. I hope to be in a similar position in a few years time. I like Rivals and would consider a deep keel Rival 34, but depending on visitors/crew and budget I need to look at the Rival 38 and maybe even Bowman 40 in the meantime if finances permit. I'd also be very interested in your choice of dive compressor!
tcm
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haha. Have a look at the WorldARC site which gives a more detailed schedule. Also essential reading of course to make sure you avoid their party circuit.
