The Statutory Residence Test and using a boat as an overseas home.

[Dogone]

OK, so be it.

Because it is

This line of thinking on your part holds no water. I think you're badly misunderstanding the enforcement mechanics. Settlement of any argument with HMRC as to whether your boat is or is not a home is going to be years down the line, perhaps 5-7 years, not promptly after your first year of claimed non residence. The other point is that if you have a very clean record so far HMRC may well accept your filed position and not even challenge you. In a few years you can just ask them for a SA832 and if they consider you low risk you might just get one.

Yes, rarely, but this is nuanced and their circs will be different from yours. Plus, your tax inspector is not bound to follow a precedent that takes the form of a settlement between another taxpayer and their tax inspector. you're pretty much wasting you're time looking for another case to compare with, and if you do nevertheless go down this route please be very aware of your own confirmation bias.

Yes, this is 100% the best approach for you (if you can't hit the 35hrs/week thing).

Common sense. You don't need to prove where you slept - that's a red herring point. But you will (if challenged) need to prove your boat is a home and for starters it wont be the address that HMRC have . As mentioned, I just would not go down the route of needing to prove your boat is a home but if you choose that route then good luck/caveat emptor.

Legislation is legislation, not mere guidance.

Err, good luck with that. As I say, better to hit the 35 hours (3rd auto non res test) OR stay under the 30 days limit in any UK home. BUT if you have no meaningful income in 1st year, then of course that year doesn't really matter so you can sensibly take the risk of relying on the boat=home position.

That's a great response jfm. Thanks again. I feel I have a much better understanding of this now and can brief my advisors well and that should lead to better advice in the end. Fingers are crossed that Rachel doesn't put a spanner in the works at the end of the month. The whole industry surrounding this arena is in a state of high tension right now. Quite oppressive.

 

[greeny]

Complicated subject. Maybe if we understood your end game we could offer more structured help. i.e. Are you trying to become non resident and not be resident anywhere else to maybe escape UK tax? Are you becoming resident in another EU country and intend to become tax resident there? If so, which country? Because although across the EU laws are similar, they are subject to each countries rules and interpretation of the rules.
For example, here in Portugal they accept a signed habitation agreement from a friendly householder (usually a friend) who will vouch that you live in his house for free and the accommodation is available for at least a year.
You then use that as part of the evidence to become resident, that then is used, again as evidence to become non resident in UK.
Boat addresses are not normally accepted although some used them in the early days until it was officially stopped.
As my UK accountant told me years ago when I was going through this, "HMRC are reluctant to let you go until they are sure you really are resident overseas and paying tax in your new country. You have to pay tax somewhere".
Sounds like your situation is far more complex than mine was. Hope you get it worked out.

 

[Dogone]

Complicated subject. Maybe if we understood your end game we could offer more structured help. i.e. Are you trying to become non resident and not be resident anywhere else to maybe escape UK tax? Are you becoming resident in another EU country and intend to become tax resident there? If so, which country? Because although across the EU laws are similar, they are subject to each countries rules and interpretation of the rules.
For example, here in Portugal they accept a signed habitation agreement from a friendly householder (usually a friend) who will vouch that you live in his house for free and the accommodation is available for at least a year.
You then use that as part of the evidence to become resident, that then is used, again as evidence to become non resident in UK.
Boat addresses are not normally accepted although some used them in the early days until it was officially stopped.
As my UK accountant told me years ago when I was going through this, "HMRC are reluctant to let you go until they are sure you really are resident overseas and paying tax in your new country. You have to pay tax somewhere".
Sounds like your situation is far more complex than mine was. Hope you get it worked out.

Frying pan and fire! I’m not trying to become tax resident or a citizen of anywhere. That can be very easy to do, all the more so the more you offer to pay in tax. There are dozens of countries that will take you in a heartbeat. I may become tax resident somewhere, but that would be not of any advantage to my initial plan. That will help in a process of acquiring citizenship elsewhere, which is in my longer term plans. My first priority is to enjoy my life as I wish to live it. As doing that coincides with being a non tax resident I plan to take advantage of the law to reduce my taxes.

You don’t need tax residence or even residency status in a new country to be a non-resident for tax purposes. You also can be tax resident or resident elsewhere in one or multiple jurisdictions and still be tax resident in the U.K. Acquiring that status as you helpfully point out doesn’t play any role under the SRT.

I’m sorry, but your accountant did not give you the correct advice. You don’t have to pay tax somewhere. There are a number of places in the world with no taxes and you don’t need to prove you paying are in another tax jurisdiction or be resident there for HMRC to set you free under the SRT. What he advised has some implications under double tax treaties, but that’s another issue entirely.

 

[greeny]

Seems you know a lot more than your initial post led me to believe and it would seem, much more than most people on here. I answered you with good intent. Obviously doesn't align with what you are looking for. Good luck in your endeavours.

 

[jfm]

Complicated subject. Maybe if we understood your end game we could offer more structured help. i.e. Are you trying to become non resident and not be resident anywhere else to maybe escape UK tax? Are you becoming resident in another EU country and intend to become tax resident there? If so, which country? Because although across the EU laws are similar, they are subject to each countries rules and interpretation of the rules.
For example, here in Portugal they accept a signed habitation agreement from a friendly householder (usually a friend) who will vouch that you live in his house for free and the accommodation is available for at least a year.
You then use that as part of the evidence to become resident, that then is used, again as evidence to become non resident in UK.
Boat addresses are not normally accepted although some used them in the early days until it was officially stopped.
As my UK accountant told me years ago when I was going through this, "HMRC are reluctant to let you go until they are sure you really are resident overseas and paying tax in your new country. You have to pay tax somewhere".
Sounds like your situation is far more complex than mine was. Hope you get it worked out.

Greeny, your accountant is simply incorrect on that point, at least since uk law on residence changed in 2014 or so.
Under the uk law on residence, referred to in this thread as SRT, it is irrelevant whether you are resident somewhere else.
Dogone, if your plan is to be resident nowhere, I suggest you should think carefully about living with no TIN, if you have complex financial investments. Ok if you have simple finances ( I guess, though I have never tried life without a TIN).

 

[greeny]

Greeny, your accountant is simply incorrect on that point, at least since uk law on residence changed in 2014 or so.
Under the uk law on residence, referred to in this thread as SRT, it is irrelevant whether you are resident somewhere else.
Dogone, if your plan is to be resident nowhere, I suggest you should think carefully about living with no TIN, if you have complex financial investments. Ok if you have simple finances ( I guess, though I have never tried life without a TIN).

My conversation with my accountant was way back in 2008 when I became non resident. in UK. Thanks for the update.

 

[alandalus11]

I can see an aggressive inspector, especially if there was a lot at stake being tempted to run an argument to challenge the boat as a home.

If HMRC want to run an argument concerning anything re residence, domicilety or tax then you may have a battle.

Just one example of a small thing overlooked.

https://journal.step.org/step-journ...its-and-santa-clore-tricks-and-traps-domicile

 

[Dogone]

Dogone, if your plan is to be resident nowhere, I suggest you should think carefully about living with no TIN, if you have complex financial investments. Ok if you have simple finances ( I guess, though I have never tried life without a TIN).

Funnily enough I’m applying to open accounts as we speak, so I can confirm having a TIN number is a standard requirement. (Such a PITA bureaucracy doing this now). Not with the fintech/challenger banks so much, but some do. I’ll be keeping my U.K. TIN anyway. Can’t avoid it realistically as I can’t shrug off some U.K. income sources easily or cheaply enough.

 

[Dogone]

If HMRC want to run an argument concerning anything re residence, domicilety or tax then you may have a battle.

Just one example of a small thing overlooked.

https://journal.step.org/step-journ...its-and-santa-clore-tricks-and-traps-domicile

That’s quite old and is really all about domicile, a very important, but very different subject.

 

[alandalus11]

Old - yes, about domicile - yes, but a good illustration that one needs to get ones ducks in a row to avoid future problems, especially with HMRC.

 

[henryf]

Not suggesting this applies to anyone, but there’s always a risk of the tail wagging the dog with residence: inasmuch as it’s not difficult to end up thinking it would have been more pleasant to spring for some tax than live on some godforsaken rock in the middle of the ocean with nothing to do except hit golf balls into the sea…

That’s no way to talk about the magnificent Isle of Wight…..