Chart plotter or I Pad

[snooks]

Use your ipad if you like so long as you sail in London or the Home Counties!

If you had a weekender, would you really need a chart plotter? An iPad in a waterproof case like the one from Scanstrut would do fine.

It all depends on what the OP wants, some people sail oceans without a GPS, others have every nav aid know to man and don't cross the channel.

If the OP is used to navigating with charts and paper an iPad on the chart table would be a good back up solution.

If the OP uses a GPS more than a compass, a chart plotter on deck is the way forward.

As has been said many times before the iPad is a jack of all trades, master of none, it's not designed for use as sea or in bright sunshine, a chart plotter does the one job it was designed to do better than anything else.

By the time you've bought an iPad-£400, iNavX software-£36, the charts-£45 and iAIS-£400 you could have bought a chart plotter £420 (Garmin 551) with charts and an AIS-£280 engine for less, no it won't have a big screen like the iPad, but you can read it day or night, wind or rain.

If you want an iPad, buy an iPad, but don't try to justify it buy saying you'll be using in instead of a chart plotter

 

[maxi77]

As far as I am aware the Ipad marvelous thougn it is (Mrs Maxi has one) it unlike Mrs Maxi does not multitask, you can either have the navigation app running or the AIS app, not both. Equally the AIS apps I have seen so far are not relative to your position and need data coverage so only work close to land.

If you want to use a multipurpose system rather than a dedicated plotter at the moment the only real alternative is the laptop/netbook which can run plotting software and accept an integratable AIS input from and AIS rx. That is my backup system, laptop with GPS dongle and USB connection to my dual output AIS rx.

 

[snooks]

As far as I am aware the Ipad marvelous thougn it is (Mrs Maxi has one) it unlike Mrs Maxi does not multitask, you can either have the navigation app running or the AIS app, not both. Equally the AIS apps I have seen so far are not relative to your position and need data coverage so only work close to land.

The AIS apps should not be used for navigation. End of story, no ifs or buts.

There is no way of determining any delay in the system.

The only way that a user should get AIS info onto their iPad plotter is via an AIS engine like iAIS which can transmit the AIS and NMEA info via wifi. The only app that can use this info at the moment is iNavX.

 

[xyachtdave]

The AIS apps should not be used for navigation. End of story, no ifs or buts.

There is no way of determining any delay in the system.

The only way that a user should get AIS info onto their iPad plotter is via an AIS engine like iAIS which can transmit the AIS and NMEA info via wifi. The only app that can use this info at the moment is iNavX.

I've got the set up you describe above sending proper gps etc into the iPad.

If, like me, you only use a plotter to confirm you are where you thought you were, mounted at the chart table the iPad makes sense.

The iPad is easily removable, doesn't drain battery power for day sailors and obviously very handy for loads of other things.

Also to 'business users' a lot more cost effective than something with 'marine' written on it...

 

[V1701]

There's another option - a netbook, preferably with a solid state drive, with GPS dongle, loaded with Open CPN & CM93 charts. Can link with an AIS engine. I have this (though not solid state) as an inexpensive backup to a Standard Horizon CP180i that can be viewed from the cockpit while steering...

 

[Boat44]

Depends how you want to use it.

If for your own use and just coastal sailing then I would go for an IPad with the relevant iAIS/GPS etc etc. You can now get suitable waterpoof housings for them. They also have other uses that Chartplotters dont, like music, email, books, dvds etc etc.

Last year we went for a Furuno, but we go offshore, and charter with it so it needs to be V robust; alought one charter had to go through the Dover Straits on his Iphone as the hard drive in the plotter had gone US!!

As somebody else said, whilst the IPad is not exactly on par with a chartplotter, there is no reason it wont be in a couple of years and then chartplotters will look cluncky and V expensive.

If somebody could also explain why the charts on a chartplotter cost £250 compared to the IPad at £25 I would be interested. (One that a recreational sailor would notice!)

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

imho... there's no substitute to having paper charts and (with general boating experience), knowing how to use them extensively along with a good knowledge of navigation equal to Day Skipper or above.
The ipad/plotter are added luxuries I'd consider after this and can give you much added information from the internet and a back-up to the charts and mark 1 eyeball and grey matter.
As to which I'd advise you purchase first possibly depends on how much your life revolves around a mobile phone and a computer.

 

[lustyd]

I think if you have to ask the question then go for the iPad every time. If you don't know whether you need a proper plotter then chances are you're not doing the kind of sailing to need one and therefore an iPad with Navionics or similar will be a better overall investment.

 

[Clarky]

Or for people not still stuck in 1978.

PS many of us CAN navigate properly, just don't need to do it on paper all the time anymore

Clearly you can't if you need all that stuff, why do you need to look at a screen if you know where you are? If you have to keep looking at a screen it means you are not sure where you are. Chart plotters are for people who dont know where they are,otherwise why look at it?
How do mountaineers manage without all that ****?
I am not a throwback to the seventies as some other poster suggested,I had a plotter on my boat that a previous owner fitted,but never used it. I have navionics on my iphone and often check it at sea,I was interested to note it once showed me 5 miles inland whilst in the Irish sea,fortunately I was not depending on it as some of the other posters seem to do.
I think the reality is that many of todays sailors cannot manage without plotters etc,unlike those that travel in the mountains who can navigate and are always aware where they are,out of necessity. I have noticed that this reliance on plotters etc is now creeping into mountaineering unfortunately.

 

[xyachtdave]

Clearly you can't if you need all that stuff, why do you need to look at a screen if you know where you are? If you have to keep looking at a screen it means you are not sure where you are. Chart plotters are for people who dont know where they are,otherwise why look at it?
How do mountaineers manage without all that ****?
I am not a throwback to the seventies as some other poster suggested,I had a plotter on my boat that a previous owner fitted,but never used it. I have navionics on my iphone and often check it at sea,I was interested to note it once showed me 5 miles inland whilst in the Irish sea,fortunately I was not depending on it as some of the other posters seem to do.
I think the reality is that many of todays sailors cannot manage without plotters etc,unlike those that travel in the mountains who can navigate and are always aware where they are,out of necessity. I have noticed that this reliance on plotters etc is now creeping into mountaineering unfortunately.

Ok I get it, but say you are tacking home with the Maplin Sands on one side and Barrow Sands on the other. Obviously you know where you are within a quarter of a mile, maybe less.

A plotter is now a handy tool in your armoury, you are obviously going to tack on depth anyway, but say a novice is on the helm, you are making lunch because nobody else can handle it, a nice little iPad next to your paper charts might make life a little easier?

Not the same sport as staring at a screen on a steering binnacle and not bothering to make any passage plans/notes/bearings to marks etc.

 

[tidclacy]

Thanks for all the input and data. I think I will stick with paper charts and mark 1 eyeball.

All these electricks seem expensive and complicated.

I have just got a second hand laptop from my daughter so I think for the future I will investigate using that if I can fathom out how to configure it.

 

[Clarky]

Yes of course it's more convenient, but I
think in many cases it leads to the temptation just to use that without any recourse to paper or even making an attempt to work out where you are from land marks, which may mean eventually an inability to navigate without the plotter or Ipad.

 

[maby]

Yes of course it's more convenient, but I
think in many cases it leads to the temptation just to use that without any recourse to paper or even making an attempt to work out where you are from land marks, which may mean eventually an inability to navigate without the plotter or Ipad.

Both Dayskipper and yachtmaster drummed in the message that one should use all available resources to ensure a safe passage - and a chart plotter used intelligently is a valuable resource. Like anything electronic, it can fail and you should have your planned course clearly marked out on paper charts which you keep updated with progress. But paper charts generally have to stay down below on a chart table so, for short-handed sailing or low visibility sailing, a chart plotter visible from the helm is a valuable backup. If I'm on my own, or just with the wife as crew and relying on her as lookout in fog or in the dark, the presence of an animated map in front of me is a very useful addition to safety. And, ok - GPSs can be inaccurate, but in poor visibility without many landmarks in range to plot against, they are more accurate than dead reckoning 90% of the time...

 

[maxi77]

Clearly you can't if you need all that stuff, why do you need to look at a screen if you know where you are? If you have to keep looking at a screen it means you are not sure where you are. Chart plotters are for people who dont know where they are,otherwise why look at it?
How do mountaineers manage without all that ****?
I am not a throwback to the seventies as some other poster suggested,I had a plotter on my boat that a previous owner fitted,but never used it. I have navionics on my iphone and often check it at sea,I was interested to note it once showed me 5 miles inland whilst in the Irish sea,fortunately I was not depending on it as some of the other posters seem to do.
I think the reality is that many of todays sailors cannot manage without plotters etc,unlike those that travel in the mountains who can navigate and are always aware where they are,out of necessity. I have noticed that this reliance on plotters etc is now creeping into mountaineering unfortunately.

Are you suggesting some one who has both an RN Bridge watchkeeping certificate and Ocean navigation certificate, and has been the Navigating officer of one of HMs ships cannot navigate 'properly' because I find using a plotter more convenient.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Thanks for all the input and data. I think I will stick with paper charts and mark 1 eyeball.

All these electricks seem expensive and complicated.

I have just got a second hand laptop from my daughter so I think for the future I will investigate using that if I can fathom out how to configure it.

As a back-up we've bought a cheap plotter programme for out Netbook computer with a gps aerial from Maplins all for less than £100.
There have been a few postings before on chart plotter programmes for laptops without much luck see.... http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236654
I eventually bought a Belfield programme with tides which is basic but o.k. http://www.chartsandtides.co.uk/chartplotter
GOOD LUCK
s.

 

[V1701]

Thanks for all the input and data. I think I will stick with paper charts and mark 1 eyeball.

All these electricks seem expensive and complicated.

I have just got a second hand laptop from my daughter so I think for the future I will investigate using that if I can fathom out how to configure it.

With that you can make a start by downloading Open CPN, a freeware chart plotter for laptop here. Have a play around with it, if you think you might like to try it you can download CM93 or some of the American NOAA charts, e.g. to practice with. Add a GPS dongle (£20 or so) and you have a complete navigation system. Don't be intimidated by it...

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Clearly you can't if you need all that stuff, why do you need to look at a screen if you know where you are? If you have to keep looking at a screen it means you are not sure where you are. Chart plotters are for people who dont know where they are,otherwise why look at it?
How do mountaineers manage without all that ****?
I am not a throwback to the seventies as some other poster suggested,I had a plotter on my boat that a previous owner fitted,but never used it. I have navionics on my iphone and often check it at sea,I was interested to note it once showed me 5 miles inland whilst in the Irish sea,fortunately I was not depending on it as some of the other posters seem to do.
I think the reality is that many of todays sailors cannot manage without plotters etc,unlike those that travel in the mountains who can navigate and are always aware where they are,out of necessity. I have noticed that this reliance on plotters etc is now creeping into mountaineering unfortunately.

You fail to understand the difference between 'need' and 'want'.
Just because i find it convenient, does not mean:

A] that I cannot navigate on paper (been sailing short and long passages since long before the advent of GPS)

B] that I feel the need to stare at it all the while.

I have it as it is easy, not for any other reason, and to assume anyone with a plotter in the cockpit can't navigate is crass.

 

[Clarky]

if you saw a mountaineer in the Alps carrying a large chart plotter would you assume he couldn't navigate proficiently from a map, I think the answer is yes.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

No, i'd think he was a lunatic.

On a boat with a 12v supply (which is what we were talking about) i'd be a little more relaxed about it!

Ps, i'd also think that anyone going into the mountains regularly who doesn't stick a £40 GPS in their backpack was also a bit stupid

 

[dunedin]

The newest plotters are all touch screen too, and use capacitative screens, so neither plotter or iPad will work with gloves

they will with the right gloves - I can confirm as this reply on iPad typed using north face gloves with special finger pads

PS I have an oldish plotter, now backed up by a combination of paper charts plus Navionics on Android phone & iPad, plus Imray on netbook PC - but as these devices bought for other reasons extra cost probably under £100 for the backup devices. Most used has been Navionics on Android phone kept in waterproof pouch - used for shore planning and on charters