Chart plotter or I Pad

[maxi77]

No, i'd think he was a lunatic.

On a boat with a 12v supply (which is what we were talking about) i'd be a little more relaxed about it!

Ps, i'd also think that anyone going into the mountains regularly who doesn't stick a £40 GPS in their backpack was also a bit stupid

And there are plenty of handhelds that have a very decent map display facility, just for those who ramble in the hills etc. For a while I used one which could display both charts and OS maps. In reality the skilled navigator who does not use all the sources and aids available to him is perhaps not as skilled as he claims.

 

[Clarky]

Ps, i'd also think that anyone going into the mountains regularly who doesn't stick a £40 GPS in their backpack was also a bit stupid[/QUOTE]

Probably people from your part of the world would need one, I've rescued enough of them off the hills,and you've guessed it, mainly due to an inability to navigate, in even perfect weather.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

FWIW i've spent my fair share of time in the mountains too, in all weathers and conditions, and comfortable that I can hold my own with nothing more than a decent compass and an OS map. But I would still carry a GPS. A map is a lot less useful when the fog comes down unexpectedly. I've also done enough of it to know that good advice means being properly equipped. If you are involved in mountain rescue and genuinely believe that carrying and using modern navigational aids marks someone down as somehow inferior, or less competent, then i feel sorry for you.

Your statements demonstrate the kind of attitude that puts people off asking more experienced people for help and advice.

 

[Clarky]

A map is a lot less useful when the fog comes down unexpectedly.


Another absurd statement. I think you will find that a map and compass are the most useful if the mist comes down,if you can navigate it makes no difference if its misty or not. If you are not lost you don't need a GPS in the mountains or at sea.
By the way, I have never seen fog in the mountains,only mist.

 

[maby]

A map is a lot less useful when the fog comes down unexpectedly.


Another absurd statement. I think you will find that a map and compass are the most useful if the mist comes down,if you can navigate it makes no difference if its misty or not. If you are not lost you don't need a GPS in the mountains or at sea.
By the way, I have never seen fog in the mountains,only mist.

That may be true on land where you don't have to worry about tides and leeway, but at sea in open water with buoys and other visual points of reference widely spaced, a GPS is very valuable. I understand the principles of dead reckoning and calculating a course to steer to correct for tides and leeway, but it is only ever mathmatically assisted guess-work and over a distance of multiple miles you can easily clock up enough errors to miss your next visual waypoint in poor visibility.

GPS is just the latest step in a sequence of technical developments in navigation over thousands of years. Our early ancestors apparently managed to cross remarkably long distances without even a compass and there was then a long period before we came up with a half decent sextant or chronometer - why don't you refuse to use any of them? I notice that your location is given as "Lakes" - perhaps that is the answer - go in a straight line for five or ten miles and you can be pretty sure of finding a signpost!

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

A map is a lot less useful when the fog comes down unexpectedly.


Another absurd statement. I think you will find that a map and compass are the most useful if the mist comes down,if you can navigate it makes no difference if its misty or not. If you are not lost you don't need a GPS in the mountains or at sea.
By the way, I have never seen fog in the mountains,only mist.

OK. Fair enough.

I'll stick with my 'absurb statements' (and apparently views) and continue to encourage the use of electronic aids to navigation.

If you have really been in the mountains in heavy 'mist' (which I take to mean fog unless semantics are really what you want to argue about), then you'll know that if it gets really thick, it can be really difficult to find your way, and very very easy to become disoriented. At sea, this can be even worse. To claim that the answer to this is to rely on paper and compass alone, when a better, more reliable option exists, is IMHO, dangerous advice.

 

[maxi77]

A map is a lot less useful when the fog comes down unexpectedly.


Another absurd statement. I think you will find that a map and compass are the most useful if the mist comes down,if you can navigate it makes no difference if its misty or not. If you are not lost you don't need a GPS in the mountains or at sea.
By the way, I have never seen fog in the mountains,only mist.

Now it is many years since I had anyformal hillwalking trainig but then we were taught that it is quite easy for a single person trying to walk a compass course in reduced visability to in fact follow a curved rather than straight course and that in pairs you should leapfrog each other with the stationary person keeping the walker on the bearing. Because GPS indicates any cross track error it can be a very useful tool for a lone walker in reduced vis.

No aids are essential but they can both improve navigation performance in some circumstances and make life easier.

Whilst I can understand those who enjoy practising the fundamentals of navigation for their own pleasure, many of us use navigation as a tool to make the journey be it land sea or air.

People can misuse tools be they electronic or paper and pecil and compass, that does not make the tools bad.

 

[RupertW]

People can misuse tools be they electronic or paper and pecil and compass, that does not make the tools bad.

I think that puts it perfectly. One thing it does do though, is to encourage some people to believe that certain kinds of sailing require electronic tools like chart plotters or AIS which is patently untrue.

The difference between a foggy channel crossing without electronics and with them may be convenience, or minutes saved, or even peace of mind with full radar properly used. However I'd rather cross with somebody who was used to working out problems than a video game sailor. (of course the "money no object" ideal for me would be that same traditional person with all the gizmos available to be switched on on rare occasions)

 

[Genoa]

Thread drift

Seeing as the thread has drifted off onto a "paper vs technology" debate I'd like to drift somewhere else. I see you folk aren't navigating the thread very well with either set of tools!

 

[tidclacy]

As a back-up we've bought a cheap plotter programme for out Netbook computer with a gps aerial from Maplins all for less than £100.
There have been a few postings before on chart plotter programmes for laptops without much luck see.... http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236654
I eventually bought a Belfield programme with tides which is basic but o.k. http://www.chartsandtides.co.uk/chartplotter
GOOD LUCK
s.

Thanks Scotty for those links, seem the cheapest and easy way to go at present.

 

[Duffer]

On the general point of charts v plotters you can make mistakes with either. How old is the chart, when was it actually surveyed, how accurate is your fix? GPS plotters are generally very accurate but again depend on the accuracy of the underlying chart. Sometimes the GPS fix degrades without you noticing and can e.g. put you on dry land when you are clearly floating! Entering the Morlaix estuary a couple of years ago I would have hit the Chateau de Taureau if I had slavishly followed the chartplotter - the fix was at least 50 yards out in this narrow entrance.

The answer is to keep your wits about you and cross check one source of data against another, especially if the answer from one doesn't look right. (Radar overlay is good for this, as is your depthsounder).

On the original question about iPads I think they are more of a toy/gizmo for those who already have a chartplotter than a substitute. They are difficult to mount safely in the cockpit and you probably don't want it permanently mounted outside. Cases/mounts/ software will improve so you could just about use one as a chartplotter substitute provided you can recharge it after a few hours use (or keep it connected to 12v). A netbook is a cheaper option, with better battery life than a laptop.

 

[mcframe]

Late reply - silly, but amusing; still, I'm not going to nail one to my bulkhead just yet.

http://gizmodo.com/5873677/watch-an-ipad-survive-a-freefall-to-earth-from-space

 

[Sans Bateau]

I have a Garmin 4008. Is it possible to get MS windows to run on it with Word and Xcell, maybe with internet and a few other Apps?

 

[Bathdave]

Hmmm...

Quite a lot of drift here (a plotter might help with that...), not unlike some other thredas i have seen which seem to go off on tangents with teh occasional dig thrown in.

as a newbie who was about to buy a plotter to replace an old GPS on the baot I have just bought, but is an iPad advocate, it did not occur to me I could use my already-owned iPad with some new software. The arguments against advanced seem to be on basis of cost, so cost of an iPad is not relevant. One of my reservations about teh budget plotters is small screen size, whilst the screen on the pad is brilliant (although not always In bright sun)

What would I need to buy?

 

[richardm47]

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What would I need to buy?

Assuming your iPad can take a sim card and therefore also has a gps receiver, just buy the Navionics app which covers your area. Doesn't do AIS but that's not essential, a good VHF will do it.

 

[BrendanS]

A map is a lot less useful when the fog comes down unexpectedly.


Another absurd statement. I think you will find that a map and compass are the most useful if the mist comes down,if you can navigate it makes no difference if its misty or not. If you are not lost you don't need a GPS in the mountains or at sea.
By the way, I have never seen fog in the mountains,only mist.

You seem to be coming across as a bit of a ********. I can and have, often, navigated across all sorts of areas with map and compass, including with Mountain Rescue - which one are you in?, as you say you rescue people - and can navigate by chart and compass very happily. I still use electronic nav aids on boats, as they are convenient and easy if you understand the underlying principles, but if the electronics broke down could go back to paper charts or just knowledge of the route, very easily

 

[ffiill]

Chart plotters are dedicated i pads are not and of course i pads are useless for anything where a 3g mobile connection is required outwith big pop. centres-same with i phones.

 

[Chrusty 1]

Novice when it comes to electronics. investigating I Pad 2 with AIS and chart plotting software that you can download for it.

Is this the way to go or should I go for a traditional chart plotter?

Well leaving all the above bitching at each other aside, I prefer a proper chart plotter, they are built to do the one job, and that's to assist me to navigate, they are built to withstand a marine environment, I am not sure at all whether the other gizmos mentioned in this thread are really. I have changed my attitude to electronic navigation aids over the years, I used to use GPS / Chart plotters as a back up to paper charts, I now use paper charts up back up the Chart Plotters.

Just my take on the matter.

 

[richardm47]

. ... of course i pads are useless for anything where a 3g mobile connection is required outwith big pop. centres-same with i phones.

Sorry, but that is completely wrong. iPads don't need a phone connection to navigate. I used Navionics on my iPad to navigate across Irish Sea last year. No phone signal but perfect nav. You DO need a 3G iPad, but you don't need a phone signal.

 

[snooks]

You DO need a 3G iPad, but you don't need a phone signal.

[pedant]Not strictly true either, you do need a position source, and chart plotting software but you don't need 3G[/pedant]

I used Digital Yachts WLN10 or their iAIS with my wifi only iPad running iNavX with Navionics cartography