Caught by the scamera

Birdseye

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Don't see the problem with this myself. There is a speed limit, for a wide range of good reasons,
Are you sure of that? Here in Wales we have a universal 20 limit imposed by a man who doesnt drive and has no licence. All in the name of the environment as if travelling at 30 or for 50% longer at 20 will make any material difference.
 

MisterBaxter

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Are you sure of that? Here in Wales we have a universal 20 limit imposed by a man who doesnt drive and has no licence. All in the name of the environment as if travelling at 30 or for 50% longer at 20 will make any material difference.
So firstly it isn't a universal speed limit, it's simply the default in the absence of any other specific limit. Local authorities can change it to a higher figure on any stretch of road they choose.
Secondly, the 20 limit makes a huge difference to safety. Most people hit by a car travelling at 20mph live; most hit by a car doing 30mph die. And excessive speed is a factor in the majority of road accidents.
Thirdly, car fuel consumption is closely related to acceleration. In urban areas, where driving consists of repeated accelerations then stops, a 20 limit makes a significant difference to fuel consumption but only a small difference to journey times.
I could go on; as I say, speed limits are there for a range of good reasons.
 

ylop

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Are you sure of that? Here in Wales we have a universal 20 limit imposed by a man who doesnt drive and has no licence. All in the name of the environment as if travelling at 30 or for 50% longer at 20 will make any material difference.
Who are you referring to? It was a decision of the Welsh Assembly not one man. The outgoing first minister of Wales described the policy as being about road safety (rather than the environment), he uses a bike for many journeys so probably has a good feel for the perception of risk felt by road users who are not protected by a steel box. Edinburgh has basically had a 20 mph limit longer than Wales - and journey times actually improved through a mix of people staying off the roads (or using bikes/walking) and less rush-stop-rush-stop…. Motorists moaned about it for the first six months, but I’ve not heard anyone complain for ages.
 

Bouba

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Who are you referring to? It was a decision of the Welsh Assembly not one man. The outgoing first minister of Wales described the policy as being about road safety (rather than the environment), he uses a bike for many journeys so probably has a good feel for the perception of risk felt by road users who are not protected by a steel box. Edinburgh has basically had a 20 mph limit longer than Wales - and journey times actually improved through a mix of people staying off the roads (or using bikes/walking) and less rush-stop-rush-stop…. Motorists moaned about it for the first six months, but I’ve not heard anyone complain for ages.
I’ve heard that b@#%$# used before to justify speed restrictions on the M25....when it’s plainly obvious sitting in your car that your journey is taking longer
 

ylop

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I’ve heard that b@#%$# used before to justify speed restrictions on the M25....when it’s plainly obvious sitting in your car that your journey is taking longer
No idea about the m25 - if slowing the traffic means there are fewer braking waves causing start/stop it might be true although it may not “feel” faster. Edinburgh’s claim was based on actual data with average journey times - of course with averages there are always people who are above/below. Anecdotally my limited experience was consistent with the data - although if your typical journeys were at 3 am then I suspect you’d see the opposite. I’m sure there were individuals who didn’t notice an improvement even during the day - my gut feel is those are the folk who drive like the world revolves around them and arriving at their destination 60 s quicker is the most important thing in the world.
 

Bouba

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No idea about the m25 - if slowing the traffic means there are fewer braking waves causing start/stop it might be true although it may not “feel” faster. Edinburgh’s claim was based on actual data with average journey times - of course with averages there are always people who are above/below. Anecdotally my limited experience was consistent with the data - although if your typical journeys were at 3 am then I suspect you’d see the opposite. I’m sure there were individuals who didn’t notice an improvement even during the day - my gut feel is those are the folk who drive like the world revolves around them and arriving at their destination 60 s quicker is the most important thing in the world
Even more annoying is the road to Nice in the summer when they restrict the speed due to the pollution....my car doesn’t pollute.....but am I allowed to ignore the speed limit??🤷‍♂️.....well, to be honest, I don’t know 🤔🤔🤔...I am too scared to find out🥺😱.....I prefer to complain 😡
 

Bouba

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Poor driving is endemic and I think the reasons for that are similar to those that allow for the behaviour described by the OP: exceptionalism.
But my car accelerates fast...and sudden slowdowns recharge my battery....so why can’t I exhibit exceptionalism 🤷‍♂️🤔
 

Stemar

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But my car accelerates fast...and sudden slowdowns recharge my battery....so why can’t I exhibit exceptionalism 🤷‍♂️🤔

I can't tell you because I think I may be on the points limit so if I did you would be deprived of my wit and contributions for a short period. 😁
I'll take the risk.

Insults aside (take them as given:)), the simple answer is physics. I've no idea of the figures, so I'll make some up, but they're good enough to make the point. Accelerating from 50 to 90 takes 300 watt hours, energy regenerated decelerating from 90 to 50 generates 200 watt hours. Net loss 100 WH
 

Bouba

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I'll take the risk.

Insults aside (take them as given:)), the simple answer is physics. I've no idea of the figures, so I'll make some up, but they're good enough to make the point. Accelerating from 50 to 90 takes 300 watt hours, energy regenerated decelerating from 90 to 50 generates 200 watt hours. Net loss 100 WH
That 100 missing wh is the energy cost to cover the distance between the start and stop....
 

Fr J Hackett

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I'll take the risk.

Insults aside (take them as given:)), the simple answer is physics. I've no idea of the figures, so I'll make some up, but they're good enough to make the point. Accelerating from 50 to 90 takes 300 watt hours, energy regenerated decelerating from 90 to 50 generates 200 watt hours. Net loss 100 WH
If Bouba accelerated his milk float from 50 to 90 mph ( not KPH) he would be looking for the nearest place that sells underwear and a receptacle to dispose of his recently soiled ones.
 

lustyd

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I’ve heard that b@#%$# used before to justify speed restrictions on the M25....when it’s plainly obvious sitting in your car that your journey is taking longer
The lower speeds on the M25 do make journeys faster though, it's well understood and proven over many, many years. Sure, on an empty road you go slower, but the M25 isn't empty and when it is the speed limit is raised to 70mph.
At 50mph the gap between cars is smaller, meaning more throughput overall because more cars move over a particular section in a given amount of time. More throughput means fewer queues and fewer queues mean higher average speeds overall because queues on the M25 mean that traffic comes to a standstill due to the effects of braking compounding back along the road.
Any regular user of the M25 over the past 20 years or so will know that journeys are faster than before despite growing numbers of cars.
 

Stemar

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That 100 missing wh is the energy cost to cover the distance between the start and stop....
I forgot to allow for that, but it won't be the whole of the 100WH, because unless Tesla have invented a perpetual motion machine, as ylop says, it isn't 100% efficient. If it's 80% (unlikely), you've still lost 20% l as heat due to electrical resistance and mechanical friction.
 
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