buying s/h boats in holland

[eidiohir]

I have been looking at a boat in holland for sale through a broker and after making a offer that was accepted I was asked for a 15% deposit before I would be allowed to give the boat a survey and I would not be allowed to chose my own surveyor but would have to chose from a list given to me. Am I wrong to smell a rat or is this normal in holland?

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[sailorman]

its normal in this country to pay a deposit as an "intension to buy" subject to survey. you then negotiate a reduction if any defects found or go to arbitration as a final resort.
by handing the deposit you make a commitment to buy.
i belive in Holland its quite normal for the broker to appoint a surveyor both the brokers & surveyors are covered by the same professional assoications with an indemnity scheme.
take a look on the DeValk site they have a quarterly publication & explain all

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[andyball]

We've seen a few contracts in Holland.

10% is more common,from my experience.

Never heard of the "only use these surveyors" clause...is it actually written down?.

British company Ward-mckenzie have surveyors in NL- see their website or pm me & I'll find the guy's details.

contracts we've seen allow trial only after deposit, but no rejection unless surveyed faults exceed xx% of value.(10% common I think)

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[victor_meldrew]

Did you see this thread on Scuttbut?

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ybw.com/cgi-bin/forums/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=ym&Number=419003&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=93&part=>http://www.ybw.com/cgi-bin/forums/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=ym&Number=419003&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=93&part=</A>

pheran seems to be one of those who has been there, done that.

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[sailorman]

wwwdevalk.nl
e-mail welcome@devalk.nl
just recived the latest mag from them

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[quaelgeist2]

Some caution - different business culture!

It is common to be asked for a deposit, although it is certainly negotiable

15% appears excessive, 10% is common

It is your right to select the surveyor, everything else is taking you for a ride!
The surveyor is more important than in the UK, as the contract you will be "asked" to use/sign will include the broker as an independent third party and he in turn will insist on a "as surveyed" clause as for the warranty.

If possible, get a (qualified) English surveyor, the Dutch standard on surveys is apalling, several things were missing in mine and the surveyor totally relied on data provided by the seller/broker
(in my case: equipment stated as checked wasn't on board and not intended to be sold with boat)!

Compared with a survey for a different boat boat in the UK, the survey was proportionally much more expensive, less detailed, less reliable and gave no hint as to improvements base on experience with that kind of boat.

There are several surveyors from the UK who have regular trips for several clients to the continent, if you need a starting point I am happy to point you to one from the East Coast that I was very pleased with.

Last not least - the Dutch legal framework is different : Once you have agreed to buy the boat, there are hardly any get-away possibilities. Neither finance, nor several minor defects that may make you change your mind allow you to get out -> unless explicitly stated in the contract (like in mine ;-) )
That said, the seller has the obligation to fix defects up to 10% of the purchase price or has to reduce the price accordingly, if the survey states them.

Good Luck!
chris

NB Yes I am based in Holland, do (non-marine) business here and speak their language.

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[pheran]

Amazing! My experiences are totally different to yours. You may be interested to read the thread on this subject over on Scuttlebut.

<hr width=100% size=1><font color=blue>A convert to steel boats and displacement cruising - the only way to go</font color=blue>

 

[mickshep]

I used a Dutch surveyor when I purchased Fosca, Service impecable, price a fraction of the cost over here, very thorough and included an independant (Certified) translation to English. Mike.

<hr width=100% size=1>"Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me."

 

[quaelgeist2]

Thanks for the hint - amazing for me, too.

The surveyor has been/had been in business for 30yrs and is HISWA certified, no backyard boy. Broker knew him and expressed (on seeing copy) that it was standard quality.

Pieces in question: a GPS and a VHF which hadn't been on board when looking at it first, and were not on delivery (I knew also that the owner did not intend to sell thye GPS anyway). Survey said: Inspected and tested, found working !!!
Cracks in gelcoat missed, too.

When confronted with those I was glad about the slightly different role of the broker in NL where (maybe again only that one ?) took a rather independent and process-oriented approach and view (hindsight: well worth the money he took off the deal - seller's side, anyway).

chris

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[eidiohir]

yes the stipulation that you use a HISWA surveyor is in the contract which I find very offputting. the surveyor may be very good and independant but being tied to a list smacks of a cozy relatsionship between the broker and surveyor which can't be good for the buyer

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[andyball]

You can always ask to change the contract terms...it may not be a problem.

We did this when buying our house for example;didn't like one or two clauses, mentioned it to seller's solicitor & out they came, no arguments at all.

Would do the same if any doubt about performance/noise for example....some contracts don't allow for trial before signing, but if I want a quiet boat I won't be going along with that.

As it happens, ward mckenzie ,surveyors I'd likely have used in holland, are hiswa ones anyway.





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