Buying our first boat!! [Doral Monticello]

[Mr.Boon]

Hello guys,

I'm totally new here, and I have a few questions I hope some of the more advanced boat users can possibly help answer.

I live on the Costa Blanca in Spain, a relatively calm sea, so great for power boating. A trip to Ibiza from here is only 100km a way for example. My girlfriend an I are looking to buy our first motor boat soon, and we recently both got our power boating licence which allows us the drive a boat up to 12m length.

We got our eye on a 2007 Doral Monticello. The listing can be found here: http://www.spainusedcars.com/UsedCa...ticello-9-metre-luxury-cruiser59950.html#more

It 9m long including the swimming deck at the end. After doing some reading online, people do recommend not going over 8m boats for your very first boat. So here comes my first question, do you think that this boat will be too large as a first boat?

As for the Doral boats, so far I have not read many bad reviews about them, they actually seem to get praised quite a lot. Has anybody ever had issues with them here?

This Doral Monticello comes with a large number of different engines when you buy it new. The one from this listing comes with a Volvo D4 260 diesel engine. It seems they have great fuel economy, which is something we are definatly looking for. But I have not found much information about it's reliablity. Does anybody here have experience with this Volvo D4 260 diesel engine?

We plan to use this boat in salt water environments only. And probably from around May till September, so quite a few months of the year. Would it be terrible to keep it in the water all year round?

Thank you very much for reading my post.

 

[landlockedpirate]

Welcome to the forum.

No, that boat is not too big for a 1st timer. People quite often consider starter boats to be around 40ft.

Sorry, dont have any experience of the D4, but I do have experience of Costa Blanca and the Balearics. Its really not as calm as you think.

I have done trips from Barcelona to Menorca (26ft single engine) and on a calm day, its an easy 5 hour run. But I have also been trapped on the Islands for weeks at a time waiting for a weather window.

Its a great choice of boat, but I would stay a little closer to the mainland till you have a little more experience.

 

[kashurst]

sounds like a lovely boat,

lots of places to see and visit before you dash off to ibiza.
the sea can be very calm especially in the autumn. In July and August you get a strong sea breeze in the afternoon starting from @ 3pm until @ 9pm that can make life interesting. However in the morning it is often like a mirror.

February ro March it can be quite stormy - good time to do servicing etc
posts some pics when you get her.
Its fine to leave her in the water all year, most do. Just need to time your antifouling to get the best use from it before it gets too furry on the bottom.

 

[Portofino]

D4 has strainer cap issues - poor design , need upgrade as can x thread and leak/ fly off = overheating and poss flood issues .
It's fine/ normal to keep in the water all year , but needs annual lift out ,Leg oil change , antifoul , anodes , and every two years new bellows on the Legs , this is really a big job and needs to done , I would recommend a VP agent.

 

[MapisM]

So here comes my first question, do you think that this boat will be too large as a first boat?

Nope, 'salright. Just take it a bit easy.
Even if I know just a very little of the area you're talking about, I can only second those who already recommended to be a bit careful with the sea conditions.
A pleasure boat which can withstand anything the sea can throw at it, while cruising 50 Km offshore, has not been invented yet.
Oh, incidentally, you'd better start thinking in terms of NM (nautical miles), rather than Km...
All the very best, anyway. If you like the sea, you'll love it even more with a boat.
Just be warned, it's an addictive hobby...

PS: welcome to the madhouse!

 

[PCUK]

Go for it - and enjoy!

 

[Mr.Boon]

Thank you all so much for the great replies!

Today I'm going to view the Doral and possibly test drive it. We also have an appointment to view a similar sized Crownline. http://www.topbarcos.com/barcos-ocasion/crownline-250-cr-0123124304

The engine in this Crownline is the "MERCRUISER MPI 1 X 300 HP".

Both boats are from 2007, so right now about 5 years old. Are there any special things I should really look out for on a boat that is 5 years old, to make sure I'm not in for a bunch of repairs the moment I take it out of the harbor?

I like the fact that the diesel is more fuel efficient, but I'm a bit worried about noise. I personally would not buy a diesel engine for my cars as I simply do not like the noise they make (bit of sports car nut also). I'm not sure if it's the same in boats, but I guess I'll find out today.

As for maintenance and replacement parts costs, would you recommend a petrol MERCRUISER over a diesel Volvo?

 

[lovezoo]

As for maintenance and replacement parts costs, would you recommend a petrol MERCRUISER over a diesel Volvo?

The Mercruiser will be cheaper to service, especially the outdrive having a much longer interval between replacing the bellows, compared to the Volvo. See this thread for a comparison:

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244104

The diesel Volvo will of course use less fuel. In reality you are not going to be cruising over to Ibiza every weekend in your boat, so the fuel savings may not be too important to you.

 

[Brian Legal]

First Boat

Hope all goes well.

From my perspective and in a nutshell, check the VAT / IVA status (and obtain original documents), check the history via the various bills of sale and sign a standard contract.

Best wishes

Brian

 

[Ripster]

Welcome in. I agree 8m is fine to start with or even a bit bigger. Just get your training and take things slowly and sensibly.

Don't know much about Doral, but they always seem to have huge swim platforms and are from Canada! Reports on them seem OK, but like all boats its how they are looked after that's the key to condition in later life. If you are new to boats (even if you're not in fact!) get a good engine man and surveyor to give the chosen vessel and good look over and test. With Powerboats, generally the costs and trouble are in the motors and legs. Make sure you get these examined thoroughly. Normal proc (in UK anyway) is to choose the boat and stick a holding deposit (normally about 10% - but can be less if that's agreed) on it, with purchase being subject to survey and sea trial. As has been said, get a standard contract of sale. Its worth spending the money up front to get the boat checked well - there are some real "dogs" out there waiting to bite the unsuspecting buyer. Take your time looking over the boat carefully - afterall its not a bad way to spend a day or two! Try to go out on at least one other different make, perhaps a European one, just to compare, noise, ride, handling etc.

Apols if this is teaching Granny...etc, but having been on the end of a "dog" once, I feel inclined to say this.

Above all, have fun.

 

[matt13]

Thank you all so much for the great replies!

Today I'm going to view the Doral and possibly test drive it. We also have an appointment to view a similar sized Crownline. http://www.topbarcos.com/barcos-ocasion/crownline-250-cr-0123124304

The engine in this Crownline is the "MERCRUISER MPI 1 X 300 HP".

Both boats are from 2007, so right now about 5 years old. Are there any special things I should really look out for on a boat that is 5 years old, to make sure I'm not in for a bunch of repairs the moment I take it out of the harbor?

I like the fact that the diesel is more fuel efficient, but I'm a bit worried about noise. I personally would not buy a diesel engine for my cars as I simply do not like the noise they make (bit of sports car nut also). I'm not sure if it's the same in boats, but I guess I'll find out today.

As for maintenance and replacement parts costs, would you recommend a petrol MERCRUISER over a diesel Volvo?

I cant help with the Doral but have owned a Crownline 250CR (2008) for about 7 months now, mine has the 350MAG Bravo 3. Ive been boating only for about 3 years and its my second boat so I dont think you need to worry about it being 8 metres, I actually find it easier to handle than my first boat which was 6 metres.

I looked at a bigger diesel boat, Crownline 270 sea trialled both and much preferred the 250 petrol, the noise from a V8 so much smoother than the diesel. Sense would have said go for diesel but my boating wasnt for long distance cruising. The boat still had to be sporty enough so I made my choice and glad I did.

IMHO Its all down to what you will use the boat for make a list of what you will be doing on the boat and see which comes out top, long distance cruising you would normally go diesel, and for blatting around the coast, towing toys etc petrol may be better.

The price seems fair if it is Vat paid, I bought mine for a little bit less than than the GBP equivalent and it was newer so im sure you could get a bit off the price.

Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

[rubberduck]

Doral had some financial issues a while ago & some boats in build suffered, I bought one , but I think 2007 should be ok. Worth checking.

 

[Mr.Boon]

Thanks again for all the great replies!

Yesterday we went to see both boats, the Crownline (2007, and also a 2010 model), and the 2007 Doral. The Doral was the one we totally loved. Unlike the Crownline from 2007, the Doral was well looked after, and looked almost like new.

We went out for a little test drive, and the sound of the diesel engine only sounded 'diesel like' when it was cold and first fired up. After a minute or so it pretty much sounded like a petrol engine to me.

The only odd noise we heard when going fast was the chrome bars from the bimini that rattled a little as they were folded up when we went out. I'm not sure if this is normal, but I guess it can be fixed with some soft padding in between.

The Doral had an electricity operated throttle lever instead of a cable one. This was the first time we had seen this on a boat, and the owner said he loved it. It's a lot smoother and more precise, but I'm not sure if it's more likely to break because it's electric.

One thing that isn't ideal is that this boat is not European, and that they have gone out of business early 2012. We were told that any manufacture is legally obligated to keep spare parts for a minimum of 10 years. Is this true? And does this actually happen? Apart from the Volvo engine, which in Europe is easy to service, which parts are likely to break for which we might need to contact a Doral parts dealer?

We are going back to view the boat again with a friend who knows a lot more about boating, but we still want to find a technician who can do a detailed checkup on this vessel. What would be the best place to find such a person?

 

[SolentPhill]

Thanks again for all the great replies!

Yesterday we went to see both boats, the Crownline (2007, and also a 2010 model), and the 2007 Doral. The Doral was the one we totally loved. Unlike the Crownline from 2007, the Doral was well looked after, and looked almost like new.

We went out for a little test drive, and the sound of the diesel engine only sounded 'diesel like' when it was cold and first fired up. After a minute or so it pretty much sounded like a petrol engine to me.

The only odd noise we heard when going fast was the chrome bars from the bimini that rattled a little as they were folded up when we went out. I'm not sure if this is normal, but I guess it can be fixed with some soft padding in between.

The Doral had an electricity operated throttle lever instead of a cable one. This was the first time we had seen this on a boat, and the owner said he loved it. It's a lot smoother and more precise, but I'm not sure if it's more likely to break because it's electric.

One thing that isn't ideal is that this boat is not European, and that they have gone out of business early 2012. We were told that any manufacture is legally obligated to keep spare parts for a minimum of 10 years. Is this true? And does this actually happen? Apart from the Volvo engine, which in Europe is easy to service, which parts are likely to break for which we might need to contact a Doral parts dealer?

We are going back to view the boat again with a friend who knows a lot more about boating, but we still want to find a technician who can do a detailed checkup on this vessel. What would be the best place to find such a person?

Dorals Great boats Im on my second, they are well made and attention to detail was always a strong point of them, Yes Doral had some issues a couple of years ago but its all sorted now, in Spain you will be ok its the UK dealers thats ****. you can get spares from your local dealer or direct from Canada if you want. Most bits apart from cushions you can get anywhere, but even cushions you can get re covered. The D4 is also a good choice they run on little fuel and are a good engine.

They are a little hevier than other boats of their size this is due to the fact they are made for the Canadian waters where the temp drops below - 20 so a thick hull is needed and whilst this does use a little more fuel than an equal boat they are better in a rougher weather as they are more sturdy.

enjoy and put pics up when you have it.

good luck with

 

[kashurst]

I wouldn't worry too much about spares - very little on a mobo is proprietary to the manufacturer. Engines, pumps, filters electronics etc are all bought in from the same manufacturers all the other boat builders use. Volvo engine (despite some comments you may get) is a good choice as they are the market leader in europe (I think) and you can get them fixed almost everywhere around the western med.

I believe the D4 has common rail electronically controlled injection much like a modern car engine (hence the better sound and smoother running) so your throttles will also be electronic
The hull and interior obviously unique to that boat but you are unlikely to have a problem with any of those that cant be fixed locally anyway. Cushions, covers and canopies can all be made/repaired locally too.
let us know how you get on

 

[terryw]

Doral's are superbly put together, and have fantastic sea handling, so do not worry about that. For the record I have owned 5 different Dorals

 

[rubberduck]

I think my Doral was made from all the spare parts lying around. Only kidding, it wasn't that bad.

 

[SolentPhill]

Doral's are superbly put together, and have fantastic sea handling, so do not worry about that. For the record I have owned 5 different Dorals

Hi Terry

did you sell the Alegria??

 

[terryw]

Phil

Sold her nearly 2 years ago now at a massive loss due to pressure from finance company (although I never missed a payment, just paying agreed reduced amount).
She has been up for sale again for past year, with new owner looking to make a profit. It went up for sale over £50k more than they bought it for, but gradually reducing in price.
If you are interested in sizing up I will let you know what the current owner paid for her 2 years ago to assist your negotiations.

 

[SolentPhill]

Phil

Sold her nearly 2 years ago now at a massive loss due to pressure from finance company (although I never missed a payment, just paying agreed reduced amount).
She has been up for sale again for past year, with new owner looking to make a profit. It went up for sale over £50k more than they bought it for, but gradually reducing in price.
If you are interested in sizing up I will let you know what the current owner paid for her 2 years ago to assist your negotiations.

No Thanks,,, would love too Ive always really liked them but very happy with the Boca, its not just the outlay for the boat, with all my toys on board and there are not many on the market that are not on my boat it would cost a fortune to add again, not just the underwater lights there are blue lights everywhere.

If I saw it on a showroom forcourt and got a good trade in I could be tempted but its doubtfull. thats a sort of I could be tempted but not. I think these boats like many have reduced in value the past couple of years and become too cheap, there is one same yr as mine at Brighton and Im told its around £130/ £140k. Thats too cheap in my mind I value mine around £160/£170k for a 3 yr excellent condition 36ft/40ft boat. It is annoying to see someone try and make a quick buck and could be he makes a loss.

have you given up now?