Buying a boat (lake Windermere)

[AntarcticPilot]

I'd agree. A day boat is much more fun. However you won't find many very secondhand caravans on sites for the OP's budget. The lake isn't about passage-making though. Some days with a steady Westerly you can fly down the lake and back on a reach in a few hours. Other times it can take you half a day to get a mile. I have sailed at less than a knot quite often (some may call it "drift").

If your aim is to spend a day sailing, and maybe a night. You can enjoy the lake for what it is. No planning for tides. Turn up and sail.

Entirely agree - I'm not in any way denigrating sailing on a lake! But a 30' boat, which is what the OP proposes, seems the wrong kind of boat. It's too big to poke into small bays or narrow passages, and less manoeverable in a tight spot - especially for a novice. It's ideal for my kind of sailing, where I hope to sleep in a different place each night I'm on holiday, and where sea-keeping ability is important. But it's not better or worse, or right and wrong - it's just different choices and styles.

Not much need to plan for tides on the Clyde either! It only gets important if you're heading round the Mull of Kintyre and up the West Coast.

 

[davidpbo]

A lot of people on Windermere use their boat as a floating caravan with some sailing.

A lot of people on the coast can't actually go that far that often because of work commitments/tides/bridges/locks. On Windermere you can get on and off the boat or go sailing virtually 24/7. There have been a few times when it has been prudent not to do either because of high winds.

We have a 23.5 foot trailerable boat on a swinging mooring on Windermere. Boat intended to sleep 2 adults and two children (substitute 1 dog and some stuff in non existent children's birth)

All costs approximate:

Swinging Mooring £800 per annum.
Original cost to buy tackle off previous owner cc £200
Lift and check every couple of years £200

Parking cc £130 per anum for annual pass.
Dinghy storage cc £80 saves inflated/repacking each time we go up.
Boat & tender insurance annual £150
Don't know about winter storage on the car park £`150 comes to mind
Cost of yard trolley if boat does not have one ?? £ 2-3K others would be able to advise on that.

Hall in/out via wardens on slip free twice a year to SLDC mooring holders.

On top of that you have cost of boat, tender & engine (maybe). Life jackets 4 X £100.
Clothing. Whilst I have XM offshore I am using my walking kit more with additional layers if needed (Paramo Jacket). I can moved easier in it, it dries out quicker and I don't have two sets of wet gear on board, one for the boat and one for walking.
Depreciation.

We learnt the basics of boat handling on Windermere with a guy called John Crisp now sadly deceased by doing a level 2 RYA Keel boat course on his 30+ Foot Benetaeu and got our boat a month or so later never having had a boat before. So basically we did what you are looking to do. I have not done much navigation although I do sometimes work through some exercises in the RYA book.

We like Windermere as our base. There are a lot of people on the lake who live near the sea but for one reason or another the sea does not suit them. We have trailed our boat to other locations, Loch Lomond, The Clyde (Twice ) and Pwhelli (Once).

There are a lot of 30ftish boats on the lake, some much bigger ones in the marinas that rarely go out, there is a max length for a swinging mooring, maximum weight of boat and vehicle for launching on the slip at Ferry Nab. No multi-hulls on swinging moorings.

With a keel of 4'6" or less you can get in to many of the public jetties, 6ft you can into a few.

The sailing is limited but the scenery stunning and if you like other outdoor pursuits lots to do if too hot/cold, windy/calm etc.

If you chose the right boat no reason why after a year or so you could not have it moved elsewhere (at a price).

Repairs and maintenance can be expensive if you can't do it yourself as there are a limited number of repairers around and only 2 sites to get boats off the lake by crane, one of which has no storage to speak of on site and the other very limited.

People do manage though.

P.M. me (private mail) you want to ask anything. The best way of finding out what the lake has to offer is to come up on a Saturday or Sunday and ask people on the public pontoons at Ferry Nab (by the chain ferry south of Bowness). If you want to arrange to meet P.M. me. Aquaplane Bob of this parish is another lake sailor, he also has a boat elsewhere.

 

[rob2]

I have sailed at less than a knot quite often (some may call it "drift").

If your aim is to spend a day sailing, and maybe a night. You can enjoy the lake for what it is. No planning for tides. Turn up and sail.

We used to go out to the boat on Southampton Water when there was no wind and simply cast off and drift with the tide and river flow, having a picnic as we went. Either drifted back with the tide or motored home. Great day out - even without sailing!

Notwithstanding the above advice about replacement budgets, the costs of maintenance will very much depend on your own abilities. If you're a competent DIYer, then most jobs will not be beyond you. Cultivate friendships with other owners around you, you can help them and they will help you.

Rob.

 

[Avocet]

We tried Windermere for a couple of seasons. (27' boat). One season we had it on a jetty at Whitecross Bay. It was certainly good to be able to turn up and sail, but excruciatingly expensive (and we're only 50 miles away!) and more trouble than I'd have imagined as the lake level rises and falls quite a lot. It was forever spitting fenders out and getting its fender board tangled up. If you don't haul out over winder, you have to be prepared to go and check the lines frequently. One wet month the jetties themselves were under water!

We also tried a season on a swinging mooring - which we thought was much better (and less damaging for the boat) even with the added hassle of towing a tender down there to get to the boat each time. Exposed in strong Westerlies though.

Overall, I wouldn't be in a hurry to repeat the experience. Very crowded in the summer and difficult (if you draw any significant amount) to get on any of the public jetties, but that was a few years ago, things might be better now. If the OP hasn't already considered it, Ullswater is nearly as big and MUCH less crowded. Handy for Junction 40 on the M6 too.

Our other big problem was finding somewhere to work on the boat in winter.

 

[Lakesailor]

Very crowded in the summer ......... Ullswater is nearly as big and MUCH less crowded. Handy for Junction 40 on the M6 too.

Much, much quieter now.

Ullswater is fine, but a bit boring, like Coniston. Something to do with being one body of water rather than Windermere which is effectively two.
Ullswater can also be very rough. Not many people leave boats on their moorings over the winter.

 

[TheNovice]

David that's my idea spot on, I don't drive so I will have to get the train, over the illness I had I couldn't. (If you chose the right boat no reason why after a year or so you could not have it moved elsewhere (at a price). ) That was another thing I always thought If the lake did not work out for me after a season or two the moving cost would not be a problem. I don't fully need a 30ftr I would be happy with a 26 or so... crowds don't bother me as much right now I have a tonne of time on my hands and would be able to get to the boat at any point really. Thinking of getting to the lake this week or next, was planning to go this Saturday but completely forgot my other halfs birthday getting all excited about going.

What's the lake like in the week and are courses available Monday-Friday My first visit and course I plan to come with two others so was thinking the 6 hour day course to get a feel of it. If anyone here at all has knowledge on a Ronautica RO 265 that would help me, someone posted best to buy a newish boat rather than an old one and that seems to give a little speed and the space I would need. Also I think It looks damn sexy ^^
Heres a link of one please let me know anything you have on it.

http://www.maiden-marine.co.uk/sear...2&n=1%3A1%3A47705%3A99671%3A53&searchtype=buy

Just want to say this forum is crazy helpful and I appreciate the time you are taking to help me get started, glad I joined.

 

[Lakesailor]

During the week there are generally 5 or 6 school boats out! Other than that it can vary from empty to a couple of dozen boats.

Don't forget Windermere town is over a mile from the lake. But that's where the station is.

Don't jump at a boat just because you have spotted it. We live on the road in to Bowness and have yachts passing by on wagons every day. What I'm saying is there are lots of sea-going yachts on the lake with all the gear you would need if you are going to go back to the sea. To equip a lake-specified boat for the sea would cost you quite a lot.

There are also a lot of yachts for sale.

 

[TheNovice]

I completely understand, just trying to get a little idea on that specific one as I can't find any reviews about it on the net. I do plan on looking at and testing quite a few before committing

 

[Avocet]

PBO seem to have don a review - about half way down the page:

http://marinedirectory.ybw.com/reprints/results_related.jsp?id=37742

Seem to be Spanish-built. Must say I know nothing about them at all, but looking at the photos, that stainless bracing strut for the shrouds going down the middle of the saloon berths would get right up my nose!

 

[Avocet]

Much, much quieter now.

Ullswater is fine, but a bit boring, like Coniston. Something to do with being one body of water rather than Windermere which is effectively two.
Ullswater can also be very rough. Not many people leave boats on their moorings over the winter.

That's interesting. I wondered what effect the 10MPH limit might have had. Last few times I've been in Bowness I've thought it's been looking a bit down-at-the-heel. Sad that. For a 26 footer (though not a deep draught one like in the advert), Derwentwater is nice, (but shallow) - and has interesting islands to land on and discover. Also, if the OP ever fancies salt water, Whitehaven Marina is pretty much next to Whitehaven's train station! If transporting boats around the lakes, I have used Glibert Browns in the past, and can recommend them.

 

[Lakesailor]

We get loads of transport past the house. Gilbert Brown do the job properly with an escort vehicle who actually stops and prevents traffic blocking the route.
Today some transport company went past at about 10mph, which is encouraging, in that he was wary, but unnecessary just here.

 

[davidpbo]

The Lake is generally much quieter in the week. Early morning or in the evening you may well be the only boat moving. Sunday night I was only aware of me and one or two others on all the boats in Parsonage Bay.

If it is horrendously busy we just sit on the mooring and watch the world go by and go for an evening sail when it is quieter.

 

[ningcompoop]

I don't drive so I will have to get the train,

..

As a fellow none-driver (bicycles ROCK!) I keep my boat on Windermere and travel mainly by train/bike/bus (and on occasion, friendly motorist), but I only live 9 miles away, the journey to Leeds is a 4-hour minimum by train, often longer (yes - 60-odd miles!) with very limited options on evenings, weekends. Whilst I'm sure you know this already and Windermere is a lovely spot, but wouldn't it be more practicle to start off somewhere a bit more readily accessible? If your mobile phone takes a swim or your outboard starts sulking, it's a long way home.

 

[ningcompoop]

I'd also suggest if you do go for Windermere, consider spending less than you planned on the boat and spend the money keeping it in a marina, hideously expensive perhaps but it'll make it a lot more practicle to get to/live on as you'll only be able to carry so much stuff over with you.

 

[colvic987]

The overheads of keeping a boat on windermere, seems to be extortionate, for a bit of lake sailing, wouldn't it be easier to get a trailable boat and then your not stuck with just the lake, after you have sailed for a few months you might want to venture further afield, but would be stuck with a 30ft boat based on the lake, and getting it transported to somewhere else would start to get quite expensive with low loaders etc.

Maybe try and get some experience with someone who has a boat, on the lake or at sea, and see which you will prefer. some people like to just day sail a few hours when its nice and sunny and a slight breeze, others like the adventure in seeking secluded bays and venturing further afield.

Being a novice, you might not know as yet, what your expectations and needs with sailing are, just the pangs of needing to get out there and sail.

maybe owning a dinghy for a few years might even be the cheap way of getting on the water till you decide on what the options really are...

 

[catlotion]

Hi Jay,

We were in exactly the same position you are about 3 years ago. I'd messed around in our Enterprise dinghy a bit but no other sailing experience. My friend and I were looking for something like a Jaguar, but then saw an old Beneteau 350 for sale on Windermere and persuaded another friend to buy it with us. If you're not experienced I'd advise getting some instruction there - I can recommend Elaine at Inspiration Marine in Bowness (used to be Total Sailing). She'll come out on your own boat which is a lot more valuable (and affordable). The first reverse mooring in the marina was a bit scary but if you've motor boat experience like I had you should be fine as yachts are much easier to handle under power! (just avoid very windy days initially).

It's a good place to learn I think as you'll be doing lots of course changes and there can be some exciting squally weather. You also have the luxury of not having to worry about tides, passage plans, commercial traffic, etc. I would prob try to get a lifting keel or something with a shallow draft though as the lake levels vary quite a bit and jetties can be shallow. We've got a 1.5m draft and it can be a pain.

I disagree that Windermere is busy. That's a myth. It's true that Bowness is a tourist nightmare and when there's racing on there's a lot of boats out but we've had the lake to ourselves many many times. Everyone seems to disappear from late afternoon and in winter the lake is practically empty (make sure you get a heater).

We were also at White Cross bay marina initially, which was very convenient with parking, power, etc but got annoyed by the increasing fees and poor facilities maintenance (and you have to move it in Winter). It is a lovely spot though and some nice people. Definitely worth checking out.

With your £3k budget per year, you're most probably looking at a swing mooring so I'd advise getting on the lake warden's waiting list asap as the premium spots are in demand (i.e the ones you can park near). Mooring fees are your main outlay (excluding maintenance) as Windermere is pretty cheap otherwise (annual lake registration is £15 a year and we pay £235 a year for insurance). However, don't under-estimate maintenance. Are you practical? If not, budget a lot more for jobs.

We also live in Leeds too and don't find the journey a problem. It's under 2 hours and a nice journey on the A65 through the dales. Traffic is rarely an issue although you may get stuck behind a caravan now and again. I agree the trains are a bit rubbish as you have to go via Manchester but it's a good service from London if you have southerners visiting!

anyway, sorry for any info duplication - davidpbo has given you lots of good stuff. Message me if you want to know anything else. Can meet for a beer in Leeds too if you want.

cheers,

Toby

 

[Lakesailor]

wouldn't it be easier to get a trailable boat and then your not stuck with just the lake

Slight problem.

I don't drive so I will have to get the train.

 

[davidpbo]

With regard getting to the boat as you don't drive.

You are looking at a Dinghy in the rack at Ferry Nab and arriving with oars and what you can wheel/carry a Taxi from the station is about the only reasonably practical option but hey you don't have a car so can "Push the Boat out on that". There may be a bus from the station which goes to Newby Bridge/Barrow via the end of the road which leads to the chain ferry ir to the chain ferry (Mountain Goat bus service?)

In which case a mooring in Parsonage bay near the launch site is your best option. Loading will be a bit more hassle but you can bring the boat into Ferry Nab and load on the pontoons, it would be exceptional not to be able to get in somewhere. You may be able to could keep a small tender outboard on the boat, it would probably have to be in a locker which should be appropriately ventilated. Tesco express is probably1/2 mile from the public jetties in Bowness. Booths is by the station, I not sure of there is direct pedestrian access from the station, maybe not. Boat bits can be bought from Maiden Marine <5 min walk or Windermere Aquatics 10 minute walk.

 

[colvic987]

Slight problem.

oops, obviously missed that sentence, must go to specsavers before I glance at the thread.


an option would be to go to the Scottish Caledonian canal, and hire a yacht for a week, after you have done a week or so learning the basics in a dinghy, the canal is quite a safe place to try your luck with a yacht, and have people on hand to help you, if you have problems during the week.

 

[Vallich]

For what it's worth, I agree with the earlier suggestion about attending sailing classes at Pugney's Lake near Wakefield. I learned to sail dinghies there and now have the choice of cheap rates on several boats including single-handed Laser1, Topper and Pico as well as the bigger ones e.g. Laser Bahia, Wayfarer, RS Vision etc. Great place to learn to sail and you could cycle there or take the train to Wakey and bike/walk to Pugs. Thereafter you could take instruction on a bigger boat on Windermere (Elaine is often recommended) and then decide if you still like and have an aptitude for sailing. You're also welcome to join me for some sailing experience on Windermere - send a PM if needed.