Budget Blue Water Kit - Idle Thoughts

[geem]

Hope for the best then? How are you going to know when to leave when anchored up well away from wifi? Even a few dozen miles N or S can make a big difference running along 38ishN to the Azores as the lows come through, wfax Boston will give you a good idea of where they're tracking. No way you'll get enough notice watching the barometer

Not having a cheap SSB receiver & something to decode costs little , going cross ocean without at least that for weather is just plain dumb IMHO.

The OP has already said he would carry a Garmin Inreach. With a one off payment of $65 he can have as many text messages for a month as he likes. Find a pal with internet access and he can track and weather route you across an ocean with far more information at his fingertips, for no effort, than you would get downloading grib files. The abilty to discuss weather and route options with a pal sat at home who isnt tired is worth its weight in gold. Save the money on the ssb stuff.

 

[geem]

Are you sure the ST2000 will be man enough for your new boat and your stub tiller may need extending to get enough leverage?

Still, it's pretty much what I've done - two entirely different systems: control heads, compass, AP computer, etc. The backup system can however only steer to a heading as no wind, or other data feeds.

All one needs to do is carry is a spare linear drive and that's basically 100% system redundancy. Ideal for those who don't want, or don't like wind vane systems.

If you are crossing oceans wind self steering is well worth considering. It uses no energy and when set up well steers at least as good as a good autopilot. We have a Windpilot and find it very powerful. I think there is a place for both autopilots and wind self steering on any ocean sailing boat. We also carry a complete spare autopilot but we wouldnt be without the Windpilot

 

[GHA]

The OP has already said he would carry a Garmin Inreach. With a one off payment of $65 he can have as many text messages for a month as he likes. Find a pal with internet access and he can track and weather route you across an ocean with far more information at his fingertips, for no effort, than you would get downloading grib files. The abilty to discuss weather and route options with a pal sat at home who isnt tired is worth its weight in gold. Save the money on the ssb stuff.

Great having both, for very little money. Something very reassuring about seeing some human input on an atlantic wfax as well as a local grib which doesn't actually show the fronts. Plus listen in to radio nets if you want & lworld service if there's actully anything left of it. Seems silly to not have a ssb receiver onboard a bluewater boat given the low cost.
Certain my choice anyway mid ocean, both compliment each other, but each to their own.

Gribs fall apart crossing the ITZC as well, wfax shows it.

 

[roblpm]

Great having both, for very little money. Something very reassuring about seeing some human input on an atlantic wfax as well as a local grib which doesn't actually show the fronts.
Certain my choice anyway mid ocean, each to their own.
Gribs fall apart crossing the ITZC as well, wfax shows it.

View attachment 66441

Yes. Just to keep everyone happy i will have both! Garmin inreach. And a cheap radio plugged in to my laptop!!

 

[geem]

Great having both, for very little money. Something very reassuring about seeing some human input on an atlantic wfax as well as a local grib which doesn't actually show the fronts. Plus listen in to radio nets if you want & lworld service if there's actully anything left of it. Seems silly to not have a ssb receiver onboard a bluewater boat given the low cost.
Certain my choice anyway mid ocean, both compliment each other, but each to their own.

Gribs fall apart crossing the ITZC as well, wfax shows it.

View attachment 66441

We have Inreach and SSB transceiver but if I was on a budget we wouldnt install the ssb specifically for a crossing. It is useful however to have SSB to pick up nets and Chris Parker weather. We were weather routed across the Atlantic by Herb in the old days with our SSB.

 

[laika]

It must be possible to add a forestay for a couple of hundred quid.

This goes back to my earlier "how do you intend flying the second headsail?" question. I had a removable inner forestay installed a couple of months ago. I just ordered a storm jib and a #3 jib, the latter to do double duty as a second headsail when running and as a more efficient alternative to a furled headsail when beating into a strong breeze. The #3 was about roblpm's target price but the forestay itself was considerably more. An order of magnitude greater than £200. Then again I went the whole hog: highfield lever second genoa car track, strop connecting the padeye on deck to the stem. Not something you'd want to do with a boat you intend getting rid of in the near future.

Another thing to add to the list though (because it's on mine and being discussed in another current thread): salt water tap and pump if you don't already have one.

 

[roblpm]

This goes back to my earlier "how do you intend flying the second headsail?" question. I had a removable inner forestay installed a couple of months ago. I just ordered a storm jib and a #3 jib, the latter to do double duty as a second headsail when running and as a more efficient alternative to a furled headsail when beating into a strong breeze. The #3 was about roblpm's target price but the forestay itself was considerably more. An order of magnitude greater than £200. Then again I went the whole hog: highfield lever second genoa car track, strop connecting the padeye on deck to the stem. Not something you'd want to do with a boat you intend getting rid of in the near future.

Another thing to add to the list though (because it's on mine and being discussed in another current thread): salt water tap and pump if you don't already have one.

Hmmmmm. Sounds like that is going to break my budget.......

 

[geem]

Hmmmmm. Sounds like that is going to break my budget.......

We have crossed an ocean with a second smaller headsail set flying free. Dont hoist on a wire just hoist it on the spinnaker halyard. Set the larger genoa on the pole and the second headsail set using the mainsail boom with a block on the end. It works and is a good budget solution. In a squall you can furl in the genoa on the furler and leave the smaller sail up or drop the smaller sail before the squall hits.

 

[roblpm]

We have crossed an ocean with a second smaller headsail set flying free. Dont hoist on a wire just hoist it on the spinnaker halyard. Set the larger genoa on the pole and the second headsail set using the mainsail boom with a block on the end. It works and is a good budget solution. In a squall you can furl in the genoa on the furler and leave the smaller sail up or drop the smaller sail before the squall hits.

Yes just doing a bit of reading on twin foresail rigs. Seem expensive, complicated and not necessarily fantastic!

 

[roblpm]

Do you have roller furling and how were thinking of flying this? And on the subject of sails...do you have a storm jib?

It may be sacrilege to note that for the cost of a windvane you could buy a hydrogenerator to power your autopilot on passage (yes yes, more to go wrong with an autopilot....)

You are naughty. This is supposed to be cheap! Those hydrogenerators cost a fortune. Then O would need an expensive racing autopilot. And a spare........

 

[GHA]

Yes just doing a bit of reading on twin foresail rigs. Seem expensive, complicated and not necessarily fantastic!

Lots boats do trade winds just with poled out genny & main with a preventer. Genny can be rolled in if a squall comes through or heave to and get the shampoo out

Will you be single handed? If so radar is pretty much at the high end of the list, and one benefit is spotting squalls, shampoo and bucket under the gooseneck for some lovely fresh water, but back to the constant battle for power to get the batts charged again..

 

[dom]

If you are crossing oceans wind self steering is well worth considering. It uses no energy and when set up well steers at least as good as a good autopilot. We have a Windpilot and find it very powerful. I think there is a place for both autopilots and wind self steering on any ocean sailing boat. We also carry a complete spare autopilot but we wouldnt be without the Windpilot

For sure, wind self-steering is always worth a thought and it works well on many boats, especially slightly older designs. As times move on, however, and boat design improves, later generation vessels tend to be somewhat faster and they need sharper APs. It really isn't true to say that wind self-steering is at least as good as modern electronic; it truly isn't. When well set up it is however a perfectly viable alternative/backup.

Also worth bearing in mind that sailing in sunny climes enters a wonderful sweet spot of better AP electronics and better solar tech.

 

[roblpm]

Lots boats do trade winds just with poled out genny & main with a preventer. Genny can be rolled in if a squall comes through or heave to and get the shampoo out

Will you be single handed? If so radar is pretty much at the high end of the list, and one benefit is spotting squalls, shampoo and bucket under the gooseneck for some lovely fresh water, but back to the constant battle for power to get the batts charged again..

Probably not single handed. Too scared! Not sure I could deal with the sleep issue. Trouble is its difficult to practice round here as too much shipping.

 

[roblpm]

For sure, wind self-steering is always worth a thought and it works well on many boats, especially slightly older designs. As times move on, however, and boat design improves, later generation vessels tend to be somewhat faster and they need sharper APs. It really isn't true to say that wind self-steering is at least as good as modern electronic; it truly isn't. When well set up it is however a perfectly viable alternative/backup.

Also worth bearing in mind that sailing in sunny climes enters a wonderful sweet spot of better AP electronics and better solar tech.

I like my electronics so whats the cheapest ap/power setup?

The other advantage of a hydrovane is that ot can act as an energy rudder?

 

[geem]

For sure, wind self-steering is always worth a thought and it works well on many boats, especially slightly older designs. As times move on, however, and boat design improves, later generation vessels tend to be somewhat faster and they need sharper APs. It really isn't true to say that wind self-steering is at least as good as modern electronic; it truly isn't. When well set up it is however a perfectly viable alternative/backup.

Also worth bearing in mind that sailing in sunny climes enters a wonderful sweet spot of better AP electronics and better solar tech.

In what way do you think modern yachts have generally improved for ocean sailing as this is what we are talking about?
We have a modern below decks rotary drive autopilot. It is very capable but in narly conditions with large seas you may be surprised how good a well set up wind self steering system is. Any autopilot works in light winds and flat seas but as many people will know on this forum they are often not that great in tougher conditions. Our autopilot is very good but we need to up the response in tougher conditions and this uses more power. If you are at sea for three weeks a power hungry autopilot may not be the best choice if you are on a small boat with limited power generating capacity. A similar autopilot as ours is going to set you back about £4k. For this you could have a second hand Windpilot or Hydrovane and a cheap tiller pilot or wheel pilot for calmer conditions. If I was sailing on a budget this would be my preferred set up. With both systems you have a back up and an opportunity to reduce your power budget considerably.

 

[roblpm]

In what way do you think modern yachts have generally improved for ocean sailing as this is what we are talking about?
We have a modern below decks rotary drive autopilot. It is very capable but in narly conditions with large seas you may be surprised how good a well set up wind self steering system is. Any autopilot works in light winds and flat seas but as many people will know on this forum they are often not that great in tougher conditions. Our autopilot is very good but we need to up the response in tougher conditions and this uses more power. If you are at sea for three weeks a power hungry autopilot may not be the best choice if you are on a small boat with limited power generating capacity. A similar autopilot as ours is going to set you back about £4k. For this you could have a second hand Windpilot or Hydrovane and a cheap tiller pilot or wheel pilot for calmer conditions. If I was sailing on a budget this would be my preferred set up. With both systems you have a back up and an opportunity to reduce your power budget considerably.

And no one has answered the question about backup rudder. So I am still voting hydrovane and tiller pilot. I quite fancy one of the new raymarine ones........ (aargh, this is impossible!)

 

[dom]

In what way do you think modern yachts have generally improved for ocean sailing as this is what we are talking about?
We have a modern below decks rotary drive autopilot. It is very capable but in narly conditions with large seas you may be surprised how good a well set up wind self steering system is. Any autopilot works in light winds and flat seas but as many people will know on this forum they are often not that great in tougher conditions. Our autopilot is very good but we need to up the response in tougher conditions and this uses more power. If you are at sea for three weeks a power hungry autopilot may not be the best choice if you are on a small boat with limited power generating capacity. A similar autopilot as ours is going to set you back about £4k. For this you could have a second hand Windpilot or Hydrovane and a cheap tiller pilot or wheel pilot for calmer conditions. If I was sailing on a budget this would be my preferred set up. With both systems you have a back up and an opportunity to reduce your power budget considerably.

I would personally say the evidence that boats get better is legion. Most things get better with time and improving technology and it wouldn't really be fair to hijack another thread with this discussion. Visit the London Maritime Museum and one cannot help but wonder how many many mariners thought they had cracked it and they kind of had; until someone else cracked it better

Re AP choice; lots of pluses and minuses on either side of this equation. I've no hard view here; everyone has a unique financial/tech/risk equation and I doubt there's any fixed answer.

 

[Orion Jim]

My basic kit for several thousand offshore miles in the last four years,
Pole out a headsail and use a preventer on the main. Cheap, efficient, doesn't overwhelm a senior citizen (me).
I have a cutter with a furling staysail and a furling headsail, keeps me off the foredeck in nasty weather.
Two deep reefs in the main. By the time you need a third reef it's time to drop the main completely. I have a full keel so I can fore-reach slowly and comfortably in a full gulfstream gale by reefing my headsails as needed.
Life raft.
EPIRB
Monitor wind vane (sailed 1600 miles single-handed to/from Bermuda this spring and hand steered for 4 hours, tops)
Raymarine wheel pilot for those times the Sargasso Sea is living up to its reputation.
50 watt solar panel keeps the batteries topped up if your needs are modest (no refridgeration on my boat)
Gale Rider storm drougue.....just in case
Spade anchor with 30 meters of 5/16 BBB and 200 feet of 5/8 nylon rode, with a Mantus anchor backup.
Standing rigging less than 10 years old and inspected annually.
Running rigging replaced well before it looks like it needs it.
Electric and manual bilge pumps with rebuild kits aboard.
AIS receiver. Very helpful extra set of eyes.
Chartplotter, GPS puck which bluetoothed to iPad loaded with chart software.
VHF radio with built in GPS.
Hand held VHF radios.
Spares for everything.
70 gallons of water in three separate tanks. 5 gallon jug in case you have to abandon ship.
Ditch bag prepared in advance with the usual necessities
A dodger pays for itself when the spray is flying.
I find radar very handy....even indicates the intensity of approaching squalls
Fixed radar reflector
These are just the highlights.

 

[[163233]]

Ais: matsutec 450

This one?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Matsutec-HP-33A-Transponder-Marine-Navigator/dp/B01LY463P5

Seems to be going for 365, which is actually quite tempting. I would quite like a transponder as something that makes my presence felt, because impact probably wouldn't.

They still seem to be far more expensive than they should be though, it's VHF tech, so how do they cost more than two VHFs?

 

[Madeo]

And for when you get to where you're going... Don't underestimate the importance of a good dinghy + outboard (I did and had to invest!), especially if you'll be living at anchor.

Brian