Budget Blue Water Kit - Idle Thoughts

[GHA]

I think an ssb receiver is not much anyway? Though I have tried it before and couldn't get it to work at my house with a shortwave radio with the right frequencies! Examples of a shortwave receiver?

I've had a degen 1103 for years now, just gets used to listen to local stations now after doing the Ham license and fitting a ham radio for email/weatherfax.
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/4288

Works great, though you might struggle getting a signal in a marina or house, much better reception or sea or anchor.
Then a cheap class D amplifier & you've music for very low power

 

[Kelpie]

I don't know what the OP's starting point is, but on the issue of a downwind setup, my boat came with an inner forestay, a big genoa, and a pole. I added a second big genoa from Seateach (£70) which I can fly using the boom as a pole. Hey presto, twin headsail rig, and I still have £930 left in the budget.
Most people probably don't have the inner forestay, but I bet they do have a genoa and pole already. It must be possible to add a forestay for a couple of hundred quid.

Anyway... did I see a bimini mentioned anywhere? Or is he planning on using a golf umbrella

 

[dom]

Even a few dozen miles N or S can make a big difference running along 38ishN to the Azores as the lows come through, wfax Boston will give you a good idea of where they're tracking. No way you'll get enough notice watching the barometer

Not having a cheap SSB receiver & something to decode costs little , going cross ocean without at least that for weather is just plain dumb IMHO.

:encouragement: to first bit

Last sentence is harsh; hard to disagree with though.

 

[RupertW]

Do you have roller furling and how were thinking of flying this? And on the subject of sails...do you have a storm jib?

It may be sacrilege to note that for the cost of a windvane you could buy a hydrogenerator to power your autopilot on passage (yes yes, more to go wrong with an autopilot....)

My concern isn't the power so much as what to do it autohelm fails, which it does from time to time and no problem if you can get a spare part at the next harbour but would really suck the fun out of a short handed ocean crossing.

 

[mattonthesea]

On my solo N Atlantic circuit I set off quite light (according to some) or dangerous (according to others)!
all 2nd hand unless noted

Garmin 72 free
Target SSB receiver with active ariel £60
laptop £110
Aries with boat
Tiller pilot with boat (only used in flat water as I had to glue the cog back on the motor spindle)
downwind - goosewing or flattish spinnaker - with boat
jack stays with boat
liferaft with boat
anchor - 35lb CQR with 40m chain (had to reset twice)
aerogen with boat
20w solar New £100 - now so much cheaper: £300 for 110w or so incl regulator on present boat
no fridge - have drunk lemon tea ever since!

by the time I cam back I had acquired:

Open CPN on laptop and CM93 charts
GPS for the laptop New €70
AIS engine and active ariel splitter New ECD 400 (mainly for the approaches to Western Channel in poor vis - can't choose a weather window from Atlantic crossing!)
The Boston weatherfax timetable!!!
LED tricolour - New £55
Replaced 150l water tank as it bust

I suspect that most boat owners will have a good toolkit - you certainly will after a long passage! (boat maintenance in paradise etc)

That was all 7 years ago.

This summer we did a Biscay circuit. As there was radar on the boat I kept it. Most useful function was to calm GF on approach to Gijon in poor vis on her watch.
Couldn't get Rasp Pi AIS to work - then Pi stopped working!

If you are planning a UK break during the trip then you can buy anything you have forgotten/decide you need/broken much easier than trying to get it abroad (rule of thumb)

Hope thisis helpful

Matt

 

[roblpm]

On my solo N Atlantic circuit I set off quite light (according to some) or dangerous (according to others)!
all 2nd hand unless noted

Garmin 72 free
Target SSB receiver with active ariel £60
laptop £110
Aries with boat
Tiller pilot with boat (only used in flat water as I had to glue the cog back on the motor spindle)
downwind - goosewing or flattish spinnaker - with boat
jack stays with boat
liferaft with boat
anchor - 35lb CQR with 40m chain (had to reset twice)
aerogen with boat
20w solar New £100 - now so much cheaper: £300 for 110w or so incl regulator on present boat
no fridge - have drunk lemon tea ever since!

by the time I cam back I had acquired:

Open CPN on laptop and CM93 charts
GPS for the laptop New €70
AIS engine and active ariel splitter New ECD 400 (mainly for the approaches to Western Channel in poor vis - can't choose a weather window from Atlantic crossing!)
The Boston weatherfax timetable!!!
LED tricolour - New £55
Replaced 150l water tank as it bust

I suspect that most boat owners will have a good toolkit - you certainly will after a long passage! (boat maintenance in paradise etc)

That was all 7 years ago.

This summer we did a Biscay circuit. As there was radar on the boat I kept it. Most useful function was to calm GF on approach to Gijon in poor vis on her watch.
Couldn't get Rasp Pi AIS to work - then Pi stopped working!

If you are planning a UK break during the trip then you can buy anything you have forgotten/decide you need/broken much easier than trying to get it abroad (rule of thumb)

Hope thisis helpful

Matt

Excellent stuff. And reminds me to reread your book which is buried in my kindle somewhere!

 

[roblpm]

My concern isn't the power so much as what to do it autohelm fails, which it does from time to time and no problem if you can get a spare part at the next harbour but would really suck the fun out of a short handed ocean crossing.

I think both if possible. Hand steering is a bit if a disaster i think. Even a third possibility of sheet to tiller if its a tiller boat?

 

[roblpm]

I don't know what the OP's starting point is, but on the issue of a downwind setup, my boat came with an inner forestay, a big genoa, and a pole. I added a second big genoa from Seateach (£70) which I can fly using the boom as a pole. Hey presto, twin headsail rig, and I still have £930 left in the budget.
Most people probably don't have the inner forestay, but I bet they do have a genoa and pole already. It must be possible to add a forestay for a couple of hundred quid.

Anyway... did I see a bimini mentioned anywhere? Or is he planning on using a golf umbrella

Starting point is an unsuitable boat which is going to get changed into a suitable one at some point in the next couple of years!

Great idea about the foresails. I can't quite get my head around spending thousands on something that is going to get used for a shortish period of time.

Ok bimini. You are right. How much for a 33 footer? Although maybe i am already down to a 30 footer?!!!!

 

[prv]

My concern isn't the power so much as what to do it autohelm fails, which it does from time to time and no problem if you can get a spare part at the next harbour but would really suck the fun out of a short handed ocean crossing.

I've still got the ST2000 tillerpilot from our previous boat, though the current one has a below-decks linear drive. I've sometimes thought of adding a tillerpilot mounting nipple to the stub tiller on the rudder stock, and fitting the foot socket into a nearby bunk frame. That would allow the tillerpilot to be dropped into place if the main pilot should fail (and it has done once before, drive motor starting to fall apart internally). I believe the ST pilots can even be operated from the main pilot's control unit at the helm, though I'd also need a length of cord running down into the aft cabin to yank it off the nipple if hand steering was needed in a hurry.

I'd possibly still want a windvane for ocean work, though.

Pete

 

[mattonthesea]

Ok bimini. You are right. How much for a 33 footer? Although maybe i am already down to a 30 footer?!!!!

one on ebay at the mo - we have a similar on our Rival 32. Ours is too low to sail with but folds away easily
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322778455106

 

[roblpm]

one on ebay at the mo - we have a similar on our Rival 32. Ours is too low to sail with but folds away easily
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322778455106

Looks like a good price!!

Anyway shame i am not quite ready to put this together as between you guys i think i can sort it well within budget. Trouble is actually applying myself to work for long enough to earn the money!

 

[dom]

I've still got the ST2000 tillerpilot from our previous boat, though the current one has a below-decks linear drive. I've sometimes thought of adding a tillerpilot mounting nipple to the stub tiller on the rudder stock, and fitting the foot socket into a nearby bunk frame. That would allow the tillerpilot to be dropped into place if the main pilot should fail (and it has done once before, drive motor starting to fall apart internally). I believe the ST pilots can even be operated from the main pilot's control unit at the helm, though I'd also need a length of cord running down into the aft cabin to yank it off the nipple if hand steering was needed in a hurry.

I'd possibly still want a windvane for ocean work, though.

Pete

Are you sure the ST2000 will be man enough for your new boat and your stub tiller may need extending to get enough leverage?

Still, it's pretty much what I've done - two entirely different systems: control heads, compass, AP computer, etc. The backup system can however only steer to a heading as no wind, or other data feeds.

All one needs to do is carry is a spare linear drive and that's basically 100% system redundancy. Ideal for those who don't want, or don't like wind vane systems.

 

[Ludd]

Are you sure the ST2000 will be man enough for your new boat and your stub tiller may need extending to get enough leverage?

Still, it's pretty much what I've done - two entirely different systems: control heads, compass, AP computer, etc. The backup system can however only steer to a heading as no wind, or other data feeds.

All one needs to do is carry is a spare linear drive and that's basically 100% system redundancy. Ideal for those who don't want, or don't like wind vane systems.

A friend crossedthe Atlantic a couple of years ago,then cruised the intracoastal,visiting family in America. Came back via Azores to Portugal. Only had Genoa poled out, and mainsail.

 

[prv]

Are you sure the ST2000 will be man enough for your new boat and your stub tiller may need extending to get enough leverage?

The tillerpilot was (deliberately) overspecced for the old boat. Most of these hulls were a tiller version (Maxi 1000) and at least some of them use the ST2000. Probably towards the top end of its range, but they're nicely balanced boats and I'd only be looking for a backup. If equipping from scratch for ocean sailing I might look for a second linear drive instead, but I'm not and the ST2000 is already on the shelf in my shed

Good point on the tiller length though - I had thought they were the same, but a quick check of the manual shows that they aren't. Maybe I should fit the nipple to the emergency tiller on deck instead - then I could control the pilot directly, engage and disengage it normally, and also use the spotlight socket to power it without needing to add any additional wiring.

Pete

 

[roblpm]

The tillerpilot was (deliberately) overspecced for the old boat. Most of these hulls were a tiller version (Maxi 1000) and at least some of them use the ST2000. Probably towards the top end of its range, but they're nicely balanced boats and I'd only be looking for a backup. If equipping from scratch for ocean sailing I might look for a second linear drive instead, but I'm not and the ST2000 is already on the shelf in my shed

Good point on the tiller length though - I had thought they were the same, but a quick check of the manual shows that they aren't. Maybe I should fit the nipple to the emergency tiller on deck instead - then I could control the pilot directly, engage and disengage it normally, and also use the spotlight socket to power it without needing to add any additional wiring.

Pete

Can you donate your Maxi 1000 to my project? Would be ideal!!

 

[prv]

Can you donate your Maxi 1000 to my project? Would be ideal!!

Mine isn't a Maxi 1000 - same hull, different deck moulding.

They're nice boats, and pretty well suited to the weekends-and-holidays cruising I do in the Solent and central Channel. One has apparently been around the world, but I don't think this design would be my first choice for serious ocean work. Everything feels that little bit too light for deep-sea - including the motion, which is the tradeoff for her turn of speed but I think would get tiring pretty quickly when you're looking at days or weeks at sea rather than hours. In many ways I actually felt more comfortable in a blow in our previous 24' Cornish Yawl - ok, the smaller boat would be making zero progress in a lumpy sea, but she had a lovely steady motion that never slammed or pounded, and everything felt sturdy like you could flail around with a sledgehammer and not break anything that mattered. Stumpy mast with everything tucked in low (reefing a gaffer brings spar weight downwards as well as the sail) and no single points of failure in the rigging (two cap shrouds per side plus a runner, and three headstays if we count wire luffs).

They say if you want to go you should go in the boat you have, and there's probably some truth in that. But if I didn't have a boat and was looking, I'd look for something a little heavier, with a more conservative rig (in terms of strength and staying, not necessarily area), and without a couple of questionably-seaworthy features like the aft cabin hatch that doesn't seal or lock down firmly.

Pete

 

[roblpm]

Mine isn't a Maxi 1000 - same hull, different deck moulding.

They're nice boats, and pretty well suited to the weekends-and-holidays cruising I do in the Solent and central Channel. One has apparently been around the world, but I don't think this design would be my first choice for serious ocean work. Everything feels that little bit too light for deep-sea - including the motion, which is the tradeoff for her turn of speed but I think would get tiring pretty quickly when you're looking at days or weeks at sea rather than hours. In many ways I actually felt more comfortable in a blow in our previous 24' Cornish Yawl - ok, the smaller boat would be making zero progress in a lumpy sea, but she had a lovely steady motion that never slammed or pounded, and everything felt sturdy like you could flail around with a sledgehammer and not break anything that mattered. Stumpy mast with everything tucked in low (reefing a gaffer brings spar weight downwards as well as the sail) and no single points of failure in the rigging (two cap shrouds per side plus a runner, and three headstays if we count wire luffs).

They say if you want to go you should go in the boat you have, and there's probably some truth in that. But if I didn't have a boat and was looking, I'd look for something a little heavier, with a more conservative rig (in terms of strength and staying, not necessarily area), and without a couple of questionably-seaworthy features like the aft cabin hatch that doesn't seal or lock down firmly.

Pete

Which model is it?

 

[roblpm]

Elan 333 - 9.99m - 4000kg

Maxi 1000 - 10.2m - 4500kg

Westerly Ocean - 10.16m - 5000kg

Hallberg Rassy 34 - 10.28m - 5300kg

Not much in it. I don't want something super slow............... I'm liking the Westerly Ocean. Heavy enough??!!

 

[alant]

Read the thread title.

unless you only post because you just want to stir things up a bit...

Read the title thread Budget "Blue Water" kit! Not anchoring in soundings.
I will in the next few days, be sailing an Ocean 71 down to the Azores, the owner has sailed it across the pond & back many times, but I have never seen him resorting to use of a weatherfax.

 

[Heckler]

Hope for the best then? How are you going to know when to leave when anchored up well away from wifi? Even a few dozen miles N or S can make a big difference running along 38ishN to the Azores as the lows come through, wfax Boston will give you a good idea of where they're tracking. No way you'll get enough notice watching the barometer

Not having a cheap SSB receiver & something to decode costs little , going cross ocean without at least that for weather is just plain dumb IMHO.

My Delorme Inreach, now Garmin does all you want. A mate at home looking at Passage Weather on demand can give up to the minute info at relatively low cost. My trip down to the Algarve cost me a £100 for the new first generation Inreach off Ebay and $60 for two months air time.
Stu