Budget Blue Water Kit - Idle Thoughts

[dom]

Probably providing the rig is balanced and the seas aren't too rough.

Forget the AP; your boat is in pristine condition !!

And as for that wonderful light reflection in the centre of a wheel clad with new leather ...hopefully the missus doesn't spot this pic, or I'll be asking for your help with the cleaning cloths

Seriously though, good point re AP and a well balanced moderate vessel is indeed a dream to sail.

 

[RupertW]

But my blood sugar will be excellent. Middle of the ocean with no bread to lead me astray!

Then you'll miss the single greatest pleasure of a long ocean crossing - better than dozens of dolphins or hundreds of turtles or even the green flash. The smell of freshly baked bread or scones weeks after fresh food is all gone.

 

[Ludd]

From all the reports I read, most boats that get into trouble are the ones that have blue water equipment of every sort,including sat phones so they can call their insurance companies!
Do the less well equipped ones just disappear?

 

[roblpm]

Then you'll miss the single greatest pleasure of a long ocean crossing - better than dozens of dolphins or hundreds of turtles or even the green flash. The smell of freshly baked bread or scones weeks after fresh food is all gone.

Thats what made me diabetic in the first place. Bought a breadmaker. Ate too much bread. The rest is history.

 

[roblpm]

From all the reports I read, most boats that get into trouble are the ones that have blue water equipment of every sort,including sat phones so they can call their insurance companies!
Do the less well equipped ones just disappear?

Precisely the point of this thread originally. Minimum equipment. Maximum safety.

 

[ScallywagII]

All good stuff. I was really attracted to the hydrovane as it can act as an emergency rudder. Any ideas on this?

There have been a number of accounts of steering failure in recent times. IMHO this could be largely due to the use of autopilots. With hand steering you soon know if the boat is unbalanced or overcanvassed. Similarly a windvane will only work well with a fairly well balanced rig. A powerful autopilot will use more power and may carry on working hard until something breaks.

Using more traditional balanced or sheet to tiller arrangements the loads on the rudder are much lower so steering failure would be far less likely. Also getting to grips with setting up sails for self steering provides an understanding of how steering works, so chances of successfully jury rigging in the event of steering failure would be far greater.

If I had to cope with steering failure, I would first try to balance the windage so that the boat is pointing in approximately the right direction. Then rig a drag device of some kind set on a bridle at the stern. One leg of the bridle would be fixed and the other on a purchase led to a winch. The load could then be applied to either quarter or divided between them to point the bows in the required direction.

In the case of Dove which was abandoned in the Atlantic last winter, the skipper had reportedly been unable to make it point downwind. The video showed a bimini, sprayhood and two surfboards rigged like cockpit dodgers when the yacht was abandoned. All this windage would have acted to point the bows to windward, rather than downwind which is the usual tendency for modern yachts. I would never use a bimini, dodgers or have a dinghy on davits when offshore.

Len

 

[ScallywagII]

From all the reports I read, most boats that get into trouble are the ones that have blue water equipment of every sort,including sat phones so they can call their insurance companies!
Do the less well equipped ones just disappear?

The "less well equipped" have less stuff to break so just turn up on the other side without a fuss.

The reports we read about are when there is something newsworthy to write about. No drama, no story. It has long been so. After crossing the Pacific, pre GPS, the Hiscocks were greeted by reporters eager for their account. "Did you have any bad storms? Were your sails torn? Seasickness? Shark bites?" "Sorry, no". Reporters just disappear, not interested in a well planned and executed voyage without drama.

 

[Kelpie]

I started an Atlantic circuit on my T23+ with a budget windvane and 2 elderly autopilots. The windvane lasted about 100 miles and the autopilots both required frequent repairs, and were soon relegated. £5 worth of bungee supplied the solution for the rest of the circuit. Bungee alone for windward work, and sheet to tiller for broad reaching. Twin genoas with the wind right aft. I had bought new sails but kept the old one, probably 40 years old as a spare and this was fine downwind when the forces are less anyway. I made two long poles with epoxy and glass around suitably sized plastic pipe. The wooden tapered ends had stainless D shackles welded onto stainless sheet let into them. Not really suited for racing changes like the spring loaded ends, but an extra hour on a 3 week crossing is just an extra hour of quality time. I have a video of the steering setups and a link to John Letcher's excellent "Self-steering for sailing boats" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnkDsDWl8zQ
Try these methods, or others from Letcher's book before even considering a windvane. If you get the windvane first you may not be willing to admit that you paid so much for kit you didn't need.

An AIS receiver with alarms is so useful for the shorthanded boat. I use a receiver only and will change course to increase separation if it looks a bit close. I now also use a radar target enhancer. This gives a very good signal on ship's radar and sounds an alarm in the cabin when a radar signal is detected. So two independent electronic lookout aids.

I go to sea to get away from it all, not take it all with me, so have minimum kit. Remember that every piece of electric / electronic kit is just one drop of salt water away from failure. A HF receiver is good for entertainment and weatherfax. With four days forecasts, it is certainly possible to route away from the worst of winds and around the windless centres of highs. I have done both. I link the radio to a netbook, which I had anyway.

Could I just ask, what was the 'budget' windvane, and in what manner did it fail?

 

[roblpm]

The "less well equipped" have less stuff to break so just turn up on the other side without a fuss.

The reports we read about are when there is something newsworthy to write about. No drama, no story. It has long been so. After crossing the Pacific, pre GPS, the Hiscocks were greeted by reporters eager for their account. "Did you have any bad storms? Were your sails torn? Seasickness? Shark bites?" "Sorry, no". Reporters just disappear, not interested in a well planned and executed voyage without drama.

Sure. But maybe one of these for £400 might be wise. http://www.pbo.co.uk/reviews/safety-devices/oceansteer
Cheap wind steering. Plus backup tiller pilot.
Liferaft
Matsutec AIS
Decent anchor and tender
Dyneema for emergency rig repairs, tools and spares
3 * etrek gps with aa batteries. paper charts
Lots of bottles of water.
Delorme inreach for weather forecasts
Cheap ssb receiver for weatherfax
Laptop with opencpn.
EPIRB
Solar
Some way of climbing mast

Possibles:
Inner forestay with smaller jib
Radar alarm
Radar

So tbh if I wasn't in a hurry I think I could aquire this all quite cheaply.

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

There have been a number of accounts of steering failure in recent times. IMHO this could be largely due to the use of autopilots. With hand steering you soon know if the boat is unbalanced or overcanvassed. Similarly a windvane will only work well with a fairly well balanced rig. A powerful autopilot will use more power and may carry on working hard until something breaks.



Len

That, IMHO, is one other factor in favour of a tiller instead of a wheel for steering. The angle that the tiller makes with the centre-line of the boat is an excellent indication of how well the boat is balanced, even if you are down below and looking at the tiller-pilot from the companionway. Anything more than the usual for your boat will indicate excessive weather helm even though you are not holding the tiller and thus feeling the extra load.

 

[roblpm]

That, IMHO, is one other factor in favour of a tiller instead of a wheel for steering. The angle that the tiller makes with the centre-line of the boat is an excellent indication of how well the boat is balanced, even if you are down below and looking at the tiller-pilot from the companionway. Anything more than the usual for your boat will indicate excessive weather helm even though you are not holding the tiller and thus feeling the extra load.

I think that my next boat will have a tiller anyway. I posted about this before and was warned it might not be a good idea at 31-33 feet. But i like the idea of a spare st2000 or 2. Also the elan333, maxi 1000, westerly ocean 33 etc look better with a tiller to my eye!!

 

[Kelpie]

Sure. But maybe one of these for £400 might be wise. http://www.pbo.co.uk/reviews/safety-devices/oceansteer
Cheap wind steering. Plus backup tiller pilot.
Liferaft
Matsutec AIS
Decent anchor and tender
Dyneema for emergency rig repairs, tools and spares
3 * etrek gps with aa batteries. paper charts
Lots of bottles of water.
Delorme inreach for weather forecasts
Cheap ssb receiver for weatherfax
Laptop with opencpn.
EPIRB
Solar
Some way of climbing mast

Possibles:
Inner forestay with smaller jib
Radar alarm
Radar

So tbh if I wasn't in a hurry I think I could aquire this all quite cheaply.

Good list. I would add:
- means of cutting away rigging
- good, efficient, tested, bilge pumps with servicing kits
- storm boards, if the boat's windows are potentially vulnerable

Oh and thanks for the link to the OceanSteer- I hadn't heard of this before, clever idea.
I've been wondering whether I could jury rig my Navik servo pendulum windvane as an emergency rudder. The idea would be to lash the paddle blade centrally, and steer by working the trim tab, which would rotate the paddle on its shaft. My biggest concern would be the potential for a large cantilevered load that could bend the shaft.

 

[westhinder]

That, IMHO, is one other factor in favour of a tiller instead of a wheel for steering. The angle that the tiller makes with the centre-line of the boat is an excellent indication of how well the boat is balanced, even if you are down below and looking at the tiller-pilot from the companionway. Anything more than the usual for your boat will indicate excessive weather helm even though you are not holding the tiller and thus feeling the extra load.

You can tell this just as well on a wheel: the position of the marked central spoke indicates how much rudder is applied, hence whether the boat is balanced or in need of a reef

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

You can tell this just as well on a wheel: the position of the marked central spoke indicates how much rudder is applied, hence whether the boat is balanced or in need of a reef

Would you also be able to do that if the wheel steering is hydraulic?