Seajet
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What about lift out and winter ashore ? Every boat needs that at least occasionally, and most insurers would say every winter if afloat means a mooring.
Bristol Channel Sailing
- Thread starter Yellow Ballad
- Start date
What about lift out and winter ashore ? Every boat needs that at least occasionally, and most insurers would say every winter if afloat means a mooring.
Gwylan
Well-Known Member
Well, we spent 4 years there when I moved from dinghy sailing to bigger things.
My list of leesons are:
Learn to do your tide sums accurately - the tide rises or falls at roughly 2 metres per hour. That means for most boats the difference between sucess and failure can be measured in minutes. Not such a big deal with a bilge keeler where you sit and wait.
Watch the weather or, as others have remarked, you will get to experience wind over tide big time.
Get a copy of the blue book, indispensible for the other little places you can get to.
Despite anything people say no matter how big the engine is, in a sailing boat, you will end up going where the tide is going or moving very slowly at vast expense of fuel and wear and tear.
Look at the latest Admiralty chart and then look at some of the dates when the last survey was done.
Learn to anchor and stay anchored - oh, you will need quite a lot of chain. I was surprised to find my first 'yacht' a 24 foot Achilles came with about 60 metres of chain and another 30 of warp lying around. It can come in handy.
Have a plan B and remember that generally going back to where you started is not a plan until the tide turns.
Yes the water is muddy until Swansea, the ports are relatively far apart, there are loads of places to anchor, the people are generally pleasant, you never hear a 'radio check', Sunsail do not go there, There must be other good reasons..
Enjoy.
My list of leesons are:
Learn to do your tide sums accurately - the tide rises or falls at roughly 2 metres per hour. That means for most boats the difference between sucess and failure can be measured in minutes. Not such a big deal with a bilge keeler where you sit and wait.
Watch the weather or, as others have remarked, you will get to experience wind over tide big time.
Get a copy of the blue book, indispensible for the other little places you can get to.
Despite anything people say no matter how big the engine is, in a sailing boat, you will end up going where the tide is going or moving very slowly at vast expense of fuel and wear and tear.
Look at the latest Admiralty chart and then look at some of the dates when the last survey was done.
Learn to anchor and stay anchored - oh, you will need quite a lot of chain. I was surprised to find my first 'yacht' a 24 foot Achilles came with about 60 metres of chain and another 30 of warp lying around. It can come in handy.
Have a plan B and remember that generally going back to where you started is not a plan until the tide turns.
Yes the water is muddy until Swansea, the ports are relatively far apart, there are loads of places to anchor, the people are generally pleasant, you never hear a 'radio check', Sunsail do not go there, There must be other good reasons..
Enjoy.
Tim O
Well-Known Member
For many of us the question of where to keep our boat is academic. If you are fortunate to have the luxury of available time and money to have a choice where to keep your boat then count your blessings......if, like many of us I imagine, you work full time, have family commitments, and a limited budget then you have to keep your boat near to where you live and work or you would never get to it often enough to maintain it and be worth spending the money on.
For me, I realised couldn't afford to have a house and a boat and as you cant sail a house I've decided to give that up and live on the boat......for now that means in Cardiff or Swansea........the BC will be a steep and hopefully not too harsh learning ground! If I can ever afford to retire and am still sailing I'll head to the West coast of Scotland !
For me, I realised couldn't afford to have a house and a boat and as you cant sail a house I've decided to give that up and live on the boat......for now that means in Cardiff or Swansea........the BC will be a steep and hopefully not too harsh learning ground! If I can ever afford to retire and am still sailing I'll head to the West coast of Scotland !
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Seajet
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The best reason I've heard so far is Gwylan's ' Sunsail don't go there ' ! 
contessaman
Well-Known Member
I'd be very careful of being put off by seajets comments.
Ilfracome and tenby are as pretty as most Cornish harbours. A sail to Lundy in the summer with all its flora set against the blue of the Atlantic is stunning. A pint in the marisco tavern, great. Two marine nature reserves that are as good to sail in as they are to fish or scuba dive. Nelson himself rated milford as one of the best natural harbours and is an excellent place to run off to in heavy weather. A great launching platform for cruising southern Ireland.
Apart from maybe the locks at Cardiff and Swansea in the height of summer, nowhere is overcrowded. Once at sea you'll be on your own.
Compare to the last time I sailed in the south coast I could have walked from Lymington to Cowes across the decks without getting my feet wet. I love a good night in the folly in as much as the next person but only once in a while. Rafted up 4 boats across with tipsy sailors walking over deck all night is far from beauty in my books. I hate how rammed the south coast gets in summer.
The tide is strong so what? You plan your passage to go with it, especially in the upper reaches. Anchor or cut close inshore for the foul tide. Wind over tide cuts up rough. Sure it does but I've had seven bells knocked out of me off start point and the lizard and many other headlands too. That just makes you a good sailor. You'll learn to have the right amount of sail up to drive the boat through the seas. Rather than putting in a saggy reef you'll be the guy flattening his sails and learning how to punch your boat through the chop.
If youre happy with the commute to the boat I'd keep it where it is. Enjoy some challenging sailing. Prices that aren't yet silly and fantastic uncrowded cruising grounds. There's also some good racing to be had if you're that way inclined and cork week is a blast and within reach also.
Ilfracome and tenby are as pretty as most Cornish harbours. A sail to Lundy in the summer with all its flora set against the blue of the Atlantic is stunning. A pint in the marisco tavern, great. Two marine nature reserves that are as good to sail in as they are to fish or scuba dive. Nelson himself rated milford as one of the best natural harbours and is an excellent place to run off to in heavy weather. A great launching platform for cruising southern Ireland.
Apart from maybe the locks at Cardiff and Swansea in the height of summer, nowhere is overcrowded. Once at sea you'll be on your own.
Compare to the last time I sailed in the south coast I could have walked from Lymington to Cowes across the decks without getting my feet wet. I love a good night in the folly in as much as the next person but only once in a while. Rafted up 4 boats across with tipsy sailors walking over deck all night is far from beauty in my books. I hate how rammed the south coast gets in summer.
The tide is strong so what? You plan your passage to go with it, especially in the upper reaches. Anchor or cut close inshore for the foul tide. Wind over tide cuts up rough. Sure it does but I've had seven bells knocked out of me off start point and the lizard and many other headlands too. That just makes you a good sailor. You'll learn to have the right amount of sail up to drive the boat through the seas. Rather than putting in a saggy reef you'll be the guy flattening his sails and learning how to punch your boat through the chop.
If youre happy with the commute to the boat I'd keep it where it is. Enjoy some challenging sailing. Prices that aren't yet silly and fantastic uncrowded cruising grounds. There's also some good racing to be had if you're that way inclined and cork week is a blast and within reach also.
Kurrawong_Kid
Well-Known Member
I am surprised that a number of posts have commented that the area is not attractive. I have sailed up and down to Sharpness a few times, calling into many of the ports e.g. Ilfracombe, Swansea, Watermouth, ,Minehead, Burnham, Porlock, Watchet, Bristol and Penarth; and anchored at Lundy, Mumbles, Bluewater Bay, Penarth Pier and Slime Road. For nearly all the Estuary the backdrop is stunning, far superior to the Solent Spithead and Southampton Water, provided on the Northshore by the Black Mountains and Brecon Beacons; on the south shore the Mendips and Exmoor. Sure the sailing is tough, but there are plenty of places to go, full of interest. Give it a trial run!
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Seajet
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' Stunning ' ?! Remind me not to enlist you as my ' wingman ' !
I've been there and please note I'm not the only one failing to see the BC's attraction, compared to easy alternatives by road to attractive places and sailing grounds like the Exe for a start.
I've been there and please note I'm not the only one failing to see the BC's attraction, compared to easy alternatives by road to attractive places and sailing grounds like the Exe for a start.
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Reptile Smile
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't know - I only have third party insurance. I can't speak for the rest of my club, but we take no boats out over winter. When work needs doing, we do it on the grid. If it's a longer job, we either neap them on a 14m tide on the foreshore for a couple of weeks, or crane them out - Portsihead, Bristol or Cardiff. Those who do take them out over winter for more maintenance often use a neighbouring club, such as Chepstow.
The best reason I've heard so far is Gwylan's ' Sunsail don't go there ' !
I don't think he meant that as a negative
By the way, Google Maps puts Bristol to Topsham (the close bit of the Exe) as an hour and half, not an easy hour as was stated early in the thread.
I mean no offence by this to anyone, and if I've concluded your views wrongly, forgive me - I'll edit this and change it, but to tis point in the thread, it seems people's views can be broadly summarised as:
Pro BC: 8 (Bitbaltic, jwilson, reptile smile, Fergie_macc, Halo, Snifter, contessaman, Kurrawong kid)
Anti BC: 2 (Seajet, Rotrax)
Either/or (those who see pros and cons): 4 (Sandy, Quiddle, RIBW, Captain Fantastic)
There were others who didn't seem to express a preference or opinion.
I hope this provides useful perspective to the OP...
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RIBW
Well-Known Member
As it is Boxing Day and 'Daily Orders' have not yet been posted by SWMBO:-
Just a few further musings after reading the OP's original posting again. 'Shropshire' could mean very different things in terms of travel to the sailing grounds.
1. Living next to a M54 junction
2. Ludlow in the south of the county i.e. about 1:45 hours to/from Newport by country roads
3. Whitchurch in the north of the county. [I drove Whitchurch-Shrewsbury-Hereford-Chepstow last week ; it was slooooow]
Living in Bristol with easy access to the M4 and M5, I use a (mental) time map for a journey. For example, Scotland is 'easy', whereas Norwich would come into the 'Do I really have to' category. [Note : Gloucester is approximately half way between Lands End and the Scottish border].
Compared to my mooring in Truro which is a very reliable, simple and pleasant drive of less than three hours, my south coast alternatives either include miles of single carriageway 'A' road (e.g. Weymouth at less than half the distance to Truro), wading through suburban traffic (e.g. Brixham via Paignton) or the M4/A34/M3/M27 nightmare for the Solent. Any time savings from mooring closer would be small (and the sailing more crowded).
IMHO, if it was my choice by location listed above based on travel only
1. It would be the Exe estuary (Let's assume the OP isn't a Trabant driver who insists his speedo is accurate to 1%) - about 1 hour further than the M5 Portishead junction - summer school holiday weekends excluded.
2. Newport/Cardiff would seem logical.
3. I haven't the faintest idea (no local knowledge that doesn't involve canals)
As I said above just musings!
Bob
Just a few further musings after reading the OP's original posting again. 'Shropshire' could mean very different things in terms of travel to the sailing grounds.
1. Living next to a M54 junction
2. Ludlow in the south of the county i.e. about 1:45 hours to/from Newport by country roads
3. Whitchurch in the north of the county. [I drove Whitchurch-Shrewsbury-Hereford-Chepstow last week ; it was slooooow]
Living in Bristol with easy access to the M4 and M5, I use a (mental) time map for a journey. For example, Scotland is 'easy', whereas Norwich would come into the 'Do I really have to' category. [Note : Gloucester is approximately half way between Lands End and the Scottish border].
Compared to my mooring in Truro which is a very reliable, simple and pleasant drive of less than three hours, my south coast alternatives either include miles of single carriageway 'A' road (e.g. Weymouth at less than half the distance to Truro), wading through suburban traffic (e.g. Brixham via Paignton) or the M4/A34/M3/M27 nightmare for the Solent. Any time savings from mooring closer would be small (and the sailing more crowded).
IMHO, if it was my choice by location listed above based on travel only
1. It would be the Exe estuary (Let's assume the OP isn't a Trabant driver who insists his speedo is accurate to 1%) - about 1 hour further than the M5 Portishead junction - summer school holiday weekends excluded.
2. Newport/Cardiff would seem logical.
3. I haven't the faintest idea (no local knowledge that doesn't involve canals)
As I said above just musings!
Bob
Gwylan
Well-Known Member
Then my vote would be for Swansea. The option for a sail around the bay without the challenge of the tides off Cardiff would win it for me.
Nice marina, nice club, marina run by the Council that poses challenges and the Tawe lock seems to march to a different drum. And you have the Gower and points west to wander.
Do not rule out Barry. Avoids Lavernock point and I believe the club had made some changes.
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Seajet
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I wouldn't know - I only have third party insurance. I can't speak for the rest of my club, but we take no boats out over winter. When work needs doing, we do it on the grid. If it's a longer job, we either neap them on a 14m tide on the foreshore for a couple of weeks, or crane them out - Portsihead, Bristol or Cardiff. Those who do take them out over winter for more maintenance often use a neighbouring club, such as Chepstow.
I don't think he meant that as a negative
By the way, Google Maps puts Bristol to Topsham (the close bit of the Exe) as an hour and half, not an easy hour as was stated early in the thread.
I mean no offence by this to anyone, and if I've concluded your views wrongly, forgive me - I'll edit this and change it, but to tis point in the thread, it seems people's views can be broadly summarised as:
Pro BC: 8 (Bitbaltic, jwilson, reptile smile, Fergie_macc, Halo, Snifter, contessaman, Kurrawong kid)
Anti BC: 2 (Seajet, Rotrax)
Either/or (those who see pros and cons): 4 (Sandy, Quiddle, RIBW, Captain Fantastic)
There were others who didn't seem to express a preference or opinion.
I hope this provides useful perspective to the OP...
If you're happy there, then great; I didn't bother counting people on here ' for and against ' as I feel I know what I'm talking about having sampled the BC, when I lived in Somerset I was happy to drive to what I consider pleasant sailing grounds, dinghy sailing in and around Chichester and cruiser sailing the English Channel from the Solent - once one has tried that or the South West, the Bristol Channel has little appeal.
However the ' Sunsail don't come here ' is indeed a + for the BC; with experience, admittedly hard won, one can learn to avoid them along with any other crowd.
Gwylan
Well-Known Member
Having had a steep education on Sunsail and the Police Officers Sailing Club or whatever they call themselves the Solent gets avoided.
The number of close encounters of the potentially expensive kind have led me to treat any yacht with four or more in the cockpit and new oilies and life jackets when the sun is out with extreme caution.
Col Regs seem to be a way down the learning list and certainly after the radio check procedure.
That dreadful moment as they are bearing down on you, whether they have right out way of not and then they go through their what do I do now moment. Whilst thrashing around looking for the brakes.
That can result in almost anything and the probability of any manoeuvre being chosen is in direct proportion to the absurdity of it.
No I do not like Sunsail and any obvious sailing school and avoid them. I made and make my mistakes as quietly and slowly as possible.
I learned to sail bigger boats out of Swansea where the lock on a Saturday or Sunday is the only real challenge. An instructor on a course there gave me the maxim that if I was going to hit something then it was best to do it slowly.
The number of close encounters of the potentially expensive kind have led me to treat any yacht with four or more in the cockpit and new oilies and life jackets when the sun is out with extreme caution.
Col Regs seem to be a way down the learning list and certainly after the radio check procedure.
That dreadful moment as they are bearing down on you, whether they have right out way of not and then they go through their what do I do now moment. Whilst thrashing around looking for the brakes.
That can result in almost anything and the probability of any manoeuvre being chosen is in direct proportion to the absurdity of it.
No I do not like Sunsail and any obvious sailing school and avoid them. I made and make my mistakes as quietly and slowly as possible.
I learned to sail bigger boats out of Swansea where the lock on a Saturday or Sunday is the only real challenge. An instructor on a course there gave me the maxim that if I was going to hit something then it was best to do it slowly.
Reptile Smile
Well-Known Member
Jolly good. The summary wasn't for your benefit. It was for the OP.
Seajet
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Either way, counting a few replies on here is misleading at best.
Gwylan, they're not that big a problem so as to be worth avoiding the whole Solent !
I didn't come across Sunsail at all last year; when I do, I've learned to spot them a mile off and dodge like a warship avoiding exocets, it's when a dozen or more of their big boats with loads of ignorant people onboard turn up and noisily take over harbours which is upsetting - again if one knows the score there are ways around it.
Gwylan, they're not that big a problem so as to be worth avoiding the whole Solent !
I didn't come across Sunsail at all last year; when I do, I've learned to spot them a mile off and dodge like a warship avoiding exocets, it's when a dozen or more of their big boats with loads of ignorant people onboard turn up and noisily take over harbours which is upsetting - again if one knows the score there are ways around it.
contessaman
Well-Known Member
The bottom line here is that everyone will have and is indeed entitled to their own opinions. I probably have a soft spot as I grew up as a kid sailing in the Bristol channel so to me it's my old backyard. these days my horizons have somewhat broadened and I'd take the leeward Islands any day of the week over anywhere in the UK!
But look folks, isn't this the beauty of a boat!? You can try it in one location and if it doesn't suit you or your style of sailing then you can just move it.
I say try the Bristol channel. Even if you ultimately decide to move it, a season of cruising there will be the best preparation for the journey around lands end to position the boat down south.
And again... Don't be put off said journey. It's true there's not really any bolt holes for a fin keeler. But it's a great passage and dolphins joining you off Bude or tintagel almost a certainty. Just watch the blooming unlit fishing markers off north Cornwall they are a menace... Unless you like swimming under the back of the boat in your underpants in the middle of the night wielding a hacksaw blade...
But look folks, isn't this the beauty of a boat!? You can try it in one location and if it doesn't suit you or your style of sailing then you can just move it.
I say try the Bristol channel. Even if you ultimately decide to move it, a season of cruising there will be the best preparation for the journey around lands end to position the boat down south.
And again... Don't be put off said journey. It's true there's not really any bolt holes for a fin keeler. But it's a great passage and dolphins joining you off Bude or tintagel almost a certainty. Just watch the blooming unlit fishing markers off north Cornwall they are a menace... Unless you like swimming under the back of the boat in your underpants in the middle of the night wielding a hacksaw blade...
geem
Well-Known Member
I think it is all relative. If you are used to cruising the BC or similar areas on the west coast then by comparison the Solent is exstremely crowded. One of my favourite cruising grounds is Cardigan Bay. By comparison to the Solent it is empty apart from hot spots like Pwllheli. The cruising is great and the scenary stunning. In my opinion the Solent just doesnt compare. I am glad we dont all have the same opinion or some of my favourite places would be very crowded and they would lose their appeal
bitbaltic
Well-Known Member
Halo
Well-Known Member
Are you in Australia or New Zealand ???
Kurrawong_Kid
Well-Known Member
' Stunning ' ?! Remind me not to enlist you as my ' wingman ' !
I've been there and please note I'm not the only one failing to see the BC's attraction, compared to easy alternatives by road to attractive places and sailing grounds like the Exe for a start.
The Exe is a nice river and there are a number of attractive places to sail to from there, but the tide runs hard, as in the BC, and dinghy work needs to be approached with caution. In the wrong conditions the entrance can be just as tricky as in the BC.
I think the advice for the OP to try the BC first, gently and with the benefit of the wisdom of local knowledge; and then make his mind up is the correct one.
Incidentally I was not your wingman in the dark!
mattonthesea
Well-Known Member
My musings
The trouble with talking about the BC as one entity is that it is a 200 mile plus stretch of water - and it is very different from end to end. At the east end it is narrow, fast tide, muddy (reverse for the west end). Within these two you have what has been mentioned above: beauty, rugged, muddy etc.
I keep my boat in Bristol because I know I would not do any work on her if she were an hour's drive away. And I am not a day or even a weekend sailor. I prefer to go for 2 months or more. So I see the first two or three days of each trip as a 'leaving BC' time. I have spent a week out and got no further than Lundy - that was a good week.
I love the scenery and I love the challenges - finding the Avon mouth against a sea of mud is an experience but the river up to Bristol is beautiful.Locking in to the floating harbour you get the sense of history. But I don't love the mud that clogs up the heads! If I were a day sailor then I would get a bilge keeler. There are so many lovely places to stop up here that are denied to me (correct me someone) with a long fin.
Ease of getting to ports from Bristol:
Portishead - 20 mins
Exeter - 70 mins
Plymouth - 100 mins
Portsmouth - 90 mins
Poole - 3 hours!!!
for the middle three double during school holidays
All these are from my experiences but subject to driving practice
The trouble with talking about the BC as one entity is that it is a 200 mile plus stretch of water - and it is very different from end to end. At the east end it is narrow, fast tide, muddy (reverse for the west end). Within these two you have what has been mentioned above: beauty, rugged, muddy etc.
I keep my boat in Bristol because I know I would not do any work on her if she were an hour's drive away. And I am not a day or even a weekend sailor. I prefer to go for 2 months or more. So I see the first two or three days of each trip as a 'leaving BC' time. I have spent a week out and got no further than Lundy - that was a good week.
I love the scenery and I love the challenges - finding the Avon mouth against a sea of mud is an experience but the river up to Bristol is beautiful.Locking in to the floating harbour you get the sense of history. But I don't love the mud that clogs up the heads! If I were a day sailor then I would get a bilge keeler. There are so many lovely places to stop up here that are denied to me (correct me someone) with a long fin.
Ease of getting to ports from Bristol:
Portishead - 20 mins
Exeter - 70 mins
Plymouth - 100 mins
Portsmouth - 90 mins
Poole - 3 hours!!!
for the middle three double during school holidays
All these are from my experiences but subject to driving practice
